Are all men fallible?

[Roughidle]

Originally Posted by libby

I would like to know who here considers themselves fallible, and what are the consequences of that fallibility?
As pertains to religion, or faith, how does that effect what you think you know about Jesus Christ, the Bible, or the church (or Church)?
I'm not looking for hundreds of Bible verses here as a means of assurance, because that assurance only goes as far as ones infallibility goes. IOW- if you are fallible, the verses may not mean what you think they mean.
So, what say you??

The idea is that the 10 Commandments spell out quite clearly how we are to conduct ourselves as Children of God. Our fallibility makes us inherently unable to live up to the Commandments. God knows this and through his Son we are forgiven. Now should you choose to accept this as truth you needn't worry your mind and instead place your worries upon God's brow. Be good and live in peace.
As Martin Luther says: "Pray and let God worry."

[Plan B]

[quote=Giantone;2444782]

Maybe we do but sure as hell not from someone the likes of you.

Like you do about child support and abortion?

You need to go out and buy a mirror and work on yourself and your son and let everyone else alone.

Why are you being so closed-minded?
Let debate happen.
If yr threatened, then bail...

[libby]

Originally Posted by Roughidle

The idea is that the 10 Commandments spell out quite clearly how we are to conduct ourselves as Children of God. Our fallibility makes us inherently unable to live up to the Commandments. God knows this and through his Son we are forgiven. Now should you choose to accept this as truth you needn't worry your mind and instead place your worries upon God's brow. Be good and live in peace.
As Martin Luther says: "Pray and let God worry."

Roughidle,
I believe you are right. However, I'm wondering what other Christians think the consequences of fallibility are in their relationship with God. Meaning, I suppose, the difference between sincere ignorance (although I wish I could think of a more polite word) and ignorance brought on by our fallen nature and our innate desire to do our own will, protect our own comfort, and consider ourselves wise enough to discern the things of God.

[Plan B]

Originally Posted by libby

Roughidle,
I believe you are right. However, I'm wondering what other Christians think the consequences of fallibility are in their relationship with God. Meaning, I suppose, the difference between sincere ignorance (although I wish I could think of a more polite word) and ignorance brought on by our fallen nature and our innate desire to do our own will, protect our own comfort, and consider ourselves wise enough to discern the things of God.

Paul wrote that many will escape the fire, very singed and burned as if from a house fire.
In another Epistle he states that men should love their wives as Christ loved the Church, willing to die for her. Yet wives are only told to respect and obey their husbands, and the Bible does not tell them they must love them! We cannot fulfill these thru our will or power, but then you know that.
Our fallibility is manifested when we forget that that peace that passeth all understanding illuminates all these tough scriptures, and that is not so much consequences as it is salvation itself. Only His Word has the answer, and only the person of His Spirit can translate it, allowing us to live in the Kingdom of God (see the Lord's Prayer; Thine will be done...).
The Pope's new book, Jesus of Nazereth, really helped me with these concepts.
Simply love Him, the spirit will hear your groans we cannot express with words!

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by libby

Roughidle,
I believe you are right. However, I'm wondering what other Christians think the consequences of fallibility are in their relationship with God. Meaning, I suppose, the difference between sincere ignorance (although I wish I could think of a more polite word) and ignorance brought on by our fallen nature and our innate desire to do our own will, protect our own comfort, and consider ourselves wise enough to discern the things of God.

I like that last line.

I see no reason why we each can not discern all the things of God.

In fact I believe we are told to do so in many parts of the scriptures like seek the truth and find it link HERE.

Considering one-self as fallible in that regard is saying we can not do it,

but we are told to be perfect so we must be able to accomplish it without failing.

[godsbutterfly]

Originally Posted by libby

Roughidle,
I believe you are right. However, I'm wondering what other Christians think the consequences of fallibility are in their relationship with God. Meaning, I suppose, the difference between sincere ignorance (although I wish I could think of a more polite word) and ignorance brought on by our fallen nature and our innate desire to do our own will, protect our own comfort, and consider ourselves wise enough to discern the things of God.

I have seen many times what happens when people "play the God game" and I know it doesn't work. God knows our hearts and he knows insincerity. He knows when we are willfully sinning and when we are stumbling. I know I am fallible and imperfect. I also know that as long as I earnestly repent - meaning to turn away from my sin instead of just saying "Oh sorry, God" and keep on doing it - then the consequences of that particular fallibility are washed away.

[libby]

Originally Posted by Plan B

Paul wrote that many will escape the fire, very singed and burned as if from a house fire.
In another Epistle he states that men should love their wives as Christ loved the Church, willing to die for her. Yet wives are only told to respect and obey their husbands, and the Bible does not tell them they must love them! We cannot fulfill these thru our will or power, but then you know that.
Our fallibility is manifested when we forget that that peace that passeth all understanding illuminates all these tough scriptures, and that is not so much consequences as it is salvation itself. Only His Word has the answer, and only the person of His Spirit can translate it, allowing us to live in the Kingdom of God (see the Lord's Prayer; Thine will be done...).
The Pope's new book, Jesus of Nazereth, really helped me with these concepts.
Simply love Him, the spirit will hear your groans we cannot express with words!

It funny you should mention the instructions to spouses. Personally, I think obedience is much easier to accomplish than many other virtues. I once heard it said (and the context was childrearing, so take it for what its worth) that obedience ceases to be a "virtue" when the subordinate complies only after intellectual assent. IOW- if my daughter only does as I've said because she has been convinced that I am right, obedience is no longer the virtue involved. That does not mean that it is not good for a person to learn and accept things on their own, it's just that it becomes another virtue, perhaps, like wisdom. But obedience requires that we do not know, or understand what is being said, and that we simply recognize that the person in authority has been placed in said position by God.
Christ, and husbands, have a much harder job! Also, do I read you right? You think love cannot be accomplished through the will? I think that the will is the only way to accomplish love. If I rely only on my desire to behave lovingly, then ohhhhh, my poor husband! It is incumbent upon us to behave act in love in spite of how we feel. In fact, I think the recent revelations about Mother Theresa show the depth of her love, as opposed to the failure some like to make of it.
Anyway, that's a bit off topic, but worthwhile!

[libby]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I like that last line.

I see no reason why we each can not discern all the things of God.In fact I believe we are told to do so in many parts of the scriptures like seek the truth and find it link HERE.

Considering one-self as fallible in that regard is saying we can not do it,

but we are told to be perfect so we must be able to accomplish it without failing.

Isn't that what Adam tried to do? If we were capable of discerning all the things of God, He would cease to be above us in all things, it seems to me. No, I think we are not meant to understand all things of God. "His ways are not our ways" after all.
We are told to "be perfect", yes, but you don't really think that "we must be able to accomplish it without failing" do you?

[godsbutterfly]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I like that last line.

I see no reason why we each can not discern all the things of God.

In fact I believe we are told to do so in many parts of the scriptures like seek the truth and find it link HERE.

Considering one-self as fallible in that regard is saying we can not do it,

but we are told to be perfect so we must be able to accomplish it without failing.

The Passage says we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth. It does not say we are to consider ourselves wise enough to discern all of the things of God. Even Jesus said for us to be wise and vigilant for it is not for us to know the hour or the day when he shall return.I believe we are to strive to grow spiritually in our knowledge and understanding and that God will continue to open our hearts and minds so we can, but IMO we won't ever understand everything.

[~mellabella~]

Originally Posted by libby

I would like to know who here considers themselves fallible, and what are the consequences of that fallibility?
As pertains to religion, or faith, how does that effect what you think you know about Jesus Christ, the Bible, or the church (or Church)?
I'm not looking for hundreds of Bible verses here as a means of assurance, because that assurance only goes as far as ones infallibility goes. IOW- if you are fallible, the verses may not mean what you think they mean.
So, what say you??

I am fallible. I mess up everyday. As does every other person on this earth. There is no such thing as reaching perfection while onthis earth. What are the consequences? It depends on the situation. Consequences can be short term, in the here and now; or long term, in eternity. Pertaining to my faith in Christ, well...its frustrating. Because I am told to strive for that perfection everyday...but I will always fall short. And normally when that frustration comes, so do my shortcomings. Because it takes a lot of faith-regardless of persecutuion and frustrations- to keep going every day in your walk with God. I don't see it as a religion, but a relationship. In the same way you would work things out with a spouse or a friend...its all about communication. Talking with God. And the verses sometimes are clear cut as to what God wants, but the confusion always come in when out finite minds try to understand the will and power of God.