Are all men fallible?

[libby]

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

I am fallible. I mess up everyday. As does every other person on this earth. There is no such thing as reaching perfection while onthis earth. What are the consequences? It depends on the situation. Consequences can be short term, in the here and now; or long term, in eternity. Pertaining to my faith in Christ, well...its frustrating. Because I am told to strive for that perfection everyday...but I will always fall short. And normally when that frustration comes, so do my shortcomings. Because it takes a lot of faith-regardless of persecutuion and frustrations- to keep going every day in your walk with God. I don't see it as a religion, but a relationship. In the same way you would work things out with a spouse or a friend...its all about communication. Talking with God. And the verses sometimes are clear cut as to what God wants, but the confusion always come in when out finite minds try to understand the will and power of God.

Well, mellabella,

what I meant by "infallible" is not, are we "impeccable" (did I spell that right?) because, as you said, that is simply impossible. What I mean by "infallible" is, can we know for certain what God wants, which is different from being able to actually do it.
I'll give two examples. I'll pick these two because there are some who think that there are essentials and non-essentials to faith. I'll tentatively say I agree with that, but I reserve the right to revise that statement.
Anyway, Catholics, for instance, believe the the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and that one must eat His Body and drink His Blood to have eternal life, and many other denominations say it is symbolic and (presumably then) not an essential. Now, I am not interested in debating the merits of these positions on this thread, however the Presence of Christ's Body is not what I would consider a "non-essential" regardless of which side someone falls on, so what are the consequences of being in error on either side of the issue?
What about consuming alcohol? Some think it's a critical doctrine to abstain completely, other do not think so. Again, if one's own desire to drink is clouding one's ability to clearly see what Scripture says, if that's what it says, and how will that effect one on judgement day?
You are right that a relationship is necessary, and that means talking and listening, which to my mind, means contemplative prayer as well as active prayer.
Pertaining to my faith in Christ, well...its frustrating. Because I am told to strive for that perfection everyday...but I will always fall short. And normally when that frustration comes, so do my shortcomings. Because it takes a lot of faith-regardless of persecutuion and frustrations- to keep going every day in your walk with God.
There is nothing truer than this! If being a Christian is easy, we must be doing something wrong! I cannot think of a single Biblical example of following God the Father in the Old Covenant, or following God the Son in the New, was easy! Eleven Apostles were martryed and one was exiled for life. Hmmm...no cake walk, is it? But as Paul said, he considered the sufferings of this life as nothing (obvious paraphrase)!

[~mellabella~]

...but I believe that what is true for some is not true for all. In other words...for some people they have to have communion. Its something they find necessary in order to feel that closeness with God. But maybe its different for other people. Times are not what they were in the days the scriptures were written. You have to apply them to your life as it makes sense in the current times. Now...about the alcohol comment...I think there is a difference in drinking to get drunk and just have the occassional glass. Over drinking is bad for your body, and your body is a vessel of God. So I suppose it really boils down to whether or not you care about how your vessel is kept for God to use?

ETA: Anything we do, as long as we turn from it and repent from it, won't matter anymore come judgement day.

[tiny tim]

Originally Posted by libby

I would like to know who here considers themselves fallible, and what are the consequences of that fallibility?
As pertains to religion, or faith, how does that effect what you think you know about Jesus Christ, the Bible, or the church (or Church)?
I'm not looking for hundreds of Bible verses here as a means of assurance, because that assurance only goes as far as ones infallibility goes. IOW- if you are fallible, the verses may not mean what you think they mean.
So, what say you??

i myself am not fallible in any way. Complete serious here. HOwever, I Have neveR Met anybody else who is such. that is not to say that such a being does not exist, but i, thusly far have never met one.

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by libby

Isn't that what Adam tried to do? If we were capable of discerning all the things of God, He would cease to be above us in all things, it seems to me. No, I think we are not meant to understand all things of God. "His ways are not our ways" after all.

Adam knew what and he disobeyed and that is not discerning.

To learn and then know everything about God would NOT include reading God's mind or knowing His future actions or decisions as those are different aspects that are not included in knowing anyone.

On a job we can know our boss employer perfectly as to what they want and what they expect of us and we can know their weaknesses and their vulnerabilities and much more but they remain the boss and we the subordinate.

God could be compared to an employer (in a family operated busines) where the smarter and the more competant the employees then the better the business will operate.

Hiding and secrets and keeping people un-informed are the tools of the weak while the true God is powerful, and God invites us all in to His sanctuary AS His children and not as His pawns.

When the children are young then many things are hidden from their immaturities, but as they grow the hidden truths are given generously.

Adam and Eve did not take the time to learn through obediance and now we do not need to follow that leading, but many still do.

Originally Posted by libby

We are told to "be perfect", yes, but you don't really think that "we must be able to accomplish it without failing" do you?

Failing is okay, but to keep failing when we know it is wrong is not okay.

We are alowed to fail over and over and try again.

The deffinition of "perfect" is to be "useful" as in a hammer that pounds in the nail is a perfect hammer because it did its job. Some day the handle will break but it still served long as a perfect hammer.

Now the hammer is not perfect at anything else like it will not work as a knife or a spoon so one only needs to be perfect in what one does and nothing else.

Some people can be preachers and do it great but be too incompitant to drive a car, so then there would be a perfect preacher and a worthless driver in the same person.

When Jesus said to "be ye perfect" then it is totally possible for any of us and for all of us to do it.