Vatican extends friendship to Muslims...

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Just stating that whether YHWH (I pronounce as Y'howah) and Al'lah are the same does matter.

I didn't say that.

Read it again.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Toxick

I didn't say that.

Read it again.

You did not state one way or the other whether you do or don't believe that YHWH and Al'lah are the same, just that offering peace is good. I stated that it matters whether you believe YHWH and Al'lah are the same. Being peaceful with all is or should be a given for all Christians.

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

You did not state one way or the other whether you do or don't believe that YHWH and Al'lah are the same, just that offering peace is good. I stated that it matters whether you believe YHWH and Al'lah are the same. Being peaceful with all is or should be a given for all Christians.

Then what, exactly, was your point? I detected an attitude in your post, and it seemed very pointedly directed at me - or at least at what I said.

Do you want me to assert flat out that I don't believe YHWH == Allah?

Ok, fine.

It doesn't change anything I've said so far.

And I still find all this trepidation about this peace offering moderately disturbing. You guys keep saying, "be wary" but I can't think of anything to be wary about. If the Pope makes nice with all these Muslim clerics, and they all gather around at the Vatican and sing Kumbaya and roast marshmallows and weenies (non-pork) together, and hold hands... And then Catholics and sundry Christians world-wide let their collective guards down and then the Muslims reveal their true colors by ..... doing what?

Returning to the current status quo?

ANYTHING they can't do right now?


I just don't get it. I just don't see what they can gain by this sort of a deception, and I don't see what we can lose by 'falling for it' if there is one.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Then what, exactly, was your point? I detected an attitude in your post, and it seemed very pointedly directed at me - or at least at what I said.

Do you want me to assert flat out that I don't believe YHWH == Allah?

Ok, fine.

It doesn't change anything I've said so far.

And I still find all this trepidation about this peace offering moderately disturbing. You guys keep saying, "be wary" but I can't think of anything to be wary about. If the Pope makes nice with all these Muslim clerics, and they all gather around at the Vatican and sing Kumbaya and roast marshmallows and weenies (non-pork) together, and hold hands... And then Catholics and sundry Christians world-wide let their collective guards down and then the Muslims reveal their true colors by ..... doing what?

Returning to the current status quo?

ANYTHING they can't do right now?


I just don't get it. I just don't see what they can gain by this sort of a deception, and I don't see what we can lose by 'falling for it' if there is one.

I guess I was mirroring the attitude in your post to Starman3000m. From what he has posted, he is certainly aware of the things you pointed out and asked if you should dig them up.

Wary may not be the best term. How about not confident that it will provide a solution? Same for the "Annapolis peace accords." The Bible says Israel will seek peace with its neighbors, but all the plans will fail, so I am not confident in the "Annapolis peace accords" either. It is not that I don't want them to work. It is that I have an authoritative source that says they won't.

Shalom.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Toxick

If I remember correctly, Jesus DID say a fair number of things about forgiveness, peace and compassion.

Should I dig up passages?

Um... Yes, Toxic, Jesus said many great and Truthful things, but, please remember that Jesus' Words were the Words of Yahweh, His Father:

Jesus' proclamation to the people:
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10)


Jesus' prayer unto His Father, Yahweh, regarding people who accept by faith that Jesus is The Son of God and Saviour of mankind:
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. (John 17:8)

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:14-18)

By Comparison, Islam teaches that Al'lah had no son.

Yahweh and Al'lah are Not The Same God, as the Pope and Muslims claim.
Research

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Um... Yes, Toxic, Jesus said many great and Truthful things, but, please remember that Jesus' Words were the Words of Yahweh, His Father:
...

In Toxic's defense, he did post that he does not believe YHWH == Al'lah.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

In Toxic's defense, he did post that he does not believe YHWH == Al'lah.

Yes, however, I perceived that what he was saying is that the pope's peace efforts between Islam and Christianity "might work", and I agree with you that they will not. Also, I believe that the Annapolis "peace talks" are only symbolic but do not carry any meaningful substance that will bring about True Peace.

The Bible does speak of a "false peace treaty" that will be introduced by anti-Christ and that is where I believe these talks between Annapolis and the pope's gestures are headed.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Yes, however, I perceived that what he was saying is that the pope's peace efforts between Islam and Christianity "might work", and I agree with you that they will not. Also, I believe that the Annapolis "peace talks" are only symbolic but do not carry any meaningful substance that will bring about True Peace.

The Bible does speak of a "false peace treaty" that will be introduced by anti-Christ and that is where I believe these talks between Annapolis and the pope's gestures are headed.

I don't think he was saying that they might work. I think he is saying there is nothing to lose in trying.

There is far more about failed peace attempts in Ezekiel, I think, and it is about the last days. It has been a while since I read the Old Testament prophets, so I may have the book wrong, but the gist is correct.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

I don't think he was saying that they might work. I think he is saying there is nothing to lose in trying.

There is far more about failed peace attempts in Ezekiel, I think, and it is about the last days. It has been a while since I read the Old Testament prophets, so I may have the book wrong, but the gist is correct.

OK, at least it cannot be said that an effort toward peace was not extended.
However, as you know, we still know what the final outcome will be.

Shalom

[fredcaudle]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Then what, exactly, was your point? I detected an attitude in your post, and it seemed very pointedly directed at me - or at least at what I said.

Do you want me to assert flat out that I don't believe YHWH == Allah?

Ok, fine.

It doesn't change anything I've said so far.

And I still find all this trepidation about this peace offering moderately disturbing. You guys keep saying, "be wary" but I can't think of anything to be wary about. If the Pope makes nice with all these Muslim clerics, and they all gather around at the Vatican and sing Kumbaya and roast marshmallows and weenies (non-pork) together, and hold hands... And then Catholics and sundry Christians world-wide let their collective guards down and then the Muslims reveal their true colors by ..... doing what?

Returning to the current status quo?

ANYTHING they can't do right now?


I just don't get it. I just don't see what they can gain by this sort of a deception, and I don't see what we can lose by 'falling for it' if there is one.

Allah said to kill those who refused to believe in Muhammed's teaching... God said there is no other god but me.

It is insane to think peace can come from those viewpoints. By choosing Allah one cannot be at peace with those who worship only God. By choosing God one cannot be at peace with those who worship Allah.

Peace comes from Jesus "Peace I give you... not as the world gives... but I give to you" Jesus preached peace on earth (Translation of original language is "set at one again" - meaning being reconciled to God). Both Jew and Gentile (the world's) response was to crucify a man of peace.

Do you really think man's heart has changed? The papers and other media don't show any change... we would crucify Him all over again today and when those who set to make peace on opposing principles (doctrine) - it will break down and the result is always violence.

This is the whole reason Christ Jesus came. And outside of Christ Jesus there is no peace but that which the world gives.