Dr. Charles Stanley

[This_person]

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

This tells me you don't believe in free will. God is not going to force you to believe in him. Why would he call people to Heaven to be with him that don't want anything to do with him? Its all about your choice, your personal responsibility. Another thing, would a God who forces you to believe in Him really be considered merciful to you? How about this...the truth is, you don't like the idea of hell, because it makes you uncomfortable. True?

Hell would mean that all of us have to be responsible for our actions. We would have to fess up when we've done wrong. You don't like that idea, do you?

It would appear I'm not the only one who thinks this of you, Shortbus.

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

This tells me you don't believe in free will. God is not going to force you to believe in him. Why would he call people to Heaven to be with him that don't want anything to do with him? Its all about your choice, your personal responsibility. Another thing, would a God who forces you to believe in Him really be considered merciful to you?

The Bible never really says that we have a free will, and I find that most people act like sheep and not free-will individuals at all.

In fact claiming the "free-will" is not really very true for most people.

We can choose "chocolate" or "vanilla" or type of car but that is not really a "free will".

Like none of us had a free-will to be born, or born into a sin filled world, no free will in gender or hair color or race or place of birth.

And when parents tell their children to walk or to talk or go to school then the children have no free will choice.

So the fact that we as adults might pick and choose our spouse or house or type of car or occupation are not really my idea of free will at all.

Even sinning is not a free will choice because most people sin out of vain needs and not from evil intentions.

When God created mankind He asked for no permission, and God said He would resurrect us but we can not pick or choose not to rise.

The Judgement Day is not by invitation only buy we must go whether anyone likes it or not, and God saves His children whether they like it or not.

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

How about this...the truth is, you don't like the idea of hell, because it makes you uncomfortable. True?

Hell would mean that all of us have to be responsible for our actions. We would have to fess up when we've done wrong. You don't like that idea, do you?

I do not like the idea of Hell for anyone.

And I will choose Hell for myself before serving a God that has no mercy.

And both Jesus and God does not like the "Hell" concept either link HERE again.

Even if you are claiming that you like Hell - then it is only liking it for others to burn.

If Adolf Hitler (or anyone) has been burning in Hell for some 62 years now then God would have to be a monster and a tyrant and most of all he would be a fraud because Jesus told us otherwise link HERE.

The truth is that Judgement Day will be a great day when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess and everyone will be saved.

That is the correct interpretation and people burning in Hell was never correct.

[godsbutterfly]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

The Bible never really says that we have a free will, and I find that most people act like sheep and not free-will individuals at all.

In fact claiming the "free-will" is not really very true for most people.

We can choose "chocolate" or "vanilla" or type of car but that is not really a "free will".

Like none of us had a free-will to be born, or born into a sin filled world, no free will in gender or hair color or race or place of birth.

And when parents tell their children to walk or to talk or go to school then the children have no free will choice.

So the fact that we as adults might pick and choose our spouse or house or type of car or occupation are not really my idea of free will at all.

Even sinning is not a free will choice because most people sin out of vain needs and not from evil intentions.

When God created mankind He asked for no permission, and God said He would resurrect us but we can not pick or choose not to rise.

The Judgement Day is not by invitation only buy we must go whether anyone likes it or not, and God saves His children whether they like it or not.
I do not like the idea of Hell for anyone.

And I will choose Hell for myself before serving a God that has no mercy.

And both Jesus and God does not like the "Hell" concept either link HERE again.

Even if you are claiming that you like Hell - then it is only liking it for others to burn.

If Adolf Hitler (or anyone) has been burning in Hell for some 62 years now then God would have to be a monster and a tyrant and most of all he would be a fraud because Jesus told us otherwise link HERE.

The truth is that Judgement Day will be a great day when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess and everyone will be saved.

That is the correct interpretation and people burning in Hell was never correct.

I cannot abide your deliberate blasphemy any longer so I am out of this thread. You need serious prayer and that is the only truth that will set you free.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I will choose Hell for myself before serving a God that has no mercy.

I believe it has been chosen for certain people. But, don't worry, Shortbus, you can stil repent and be saved.

I sincerely pray for you that you do.

[~mellabella~]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

The Bible never really says that we have a free will, and I find that most people act like sheep and not free-will individuals at all.:

No? Look up Joshua 24:15 ...Choose you this day whom ye will serve...
sounds to me like we have a choice there!

Originally Posted by JPC sr

:
In fact claiming the "free-will" is not really very true for most people.

We can choose "chocolate" or "vanilla" or type of car but that is not really a "free will".

Like none of us had a free-will to be born, or born into a sin filled world, no free will in gender or hair color or race or place of birth.

And when parents tell their children to walk or to talk or go to school then the children have no free will choice.

So the fact that we as adults might pick and choose our spouse or house or type of car or occupation are not really my idea of free will at all.

I'm not talk about flavors, or where you were born. I'm talking about the free will that you have to believe what you want to believe. Otherwise, you'd be forced to believe the truth, but you aren't (obviously).

Originally Posted by JPC sr

Even sinning is not a free will choice because most people sin out of vain needs and not from evil intentions.

When God created mankind He asked for no permission, and God said He would resurrect us but we can not pick or choose not to rise.

The Judgement Day is not by invitation only buy we must go whether anyone likes it or not, and God saves His children whether they like it or not.
I do not like the idea of Hell for anyone.

Vain needs ARE evil intentions! It's selfish, self centered, and against the Will of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be called *gasp* SINNING!!!!
And God will not force you to be saved.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..." (Acts 16:31)

"To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43)

That tells me you have to do your part too, not just get a free ride.

Originally Posted by JPC sr

And I will choose Hell for myself before serving a God that has no mercy.

And both Jesus and God does not like the "Hell" concept either link HERE again.

Even if you are claiming that you like Hell - then it is only liking it for others to burn.

If Adolf Hitler (or anyone) has been burning in Hell for some 62 years now then God would have to be a monster and a tyrant and most of all he would be a fraud because Jesus told us otherwise link HERE.

The truth is that Judgement Day will be a great day when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess and everyone will be saved.

That is the correct interpretation and people burning in Hell was never correct.

You'll choose Hell before serving an unmerciful God. Hmmm, how can you do this when you say Hell does not exist? Contradicting yourself there.

God doesn't want his children to go to Hell, but once again, its OUR decision.

And no cupcake, I don't like burning in Hell. Who would say something so ignorant?

You make me very sad JPC, my heart aches for you.

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

No? Look up Joshua 24:15 ...Choose you this day whom ye will serve...
sounds to me like we have a choice there!

Having choices is not the same as free will.

Since there is a threat of violence.

Either serve that God or burn in Hell is a threat of violence.

Same as a person with a gun demanding your money, then the choice is give the money or get shot, so that is not a free will.

Originally Posted by ~mellabella~

Vain needs ARE evil intentions! It's selfish, self centered, and against the Will of God. Otherwise it wouldn't be called *gasp* SINNING!!!!
And God will not force you to be saved.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved..." (Acts 16:31)

"To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins." (Acts 10:43)

That tells me you have to do your part too, not just get a free ride.

I agree with all this part.

It is just saying to be saved from sin and not from Hell.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I like the Pentecostal Church and I use to go often to the one on Midway near my home,

but 2A went there and caused trouble for me at that church so I had to stop going there.

I still like the Church there and the Pastor (and his family) are very respected by me.

I didn't cause trouble for you. You caused your own trouble. I was true to this scripture.

Matthew 18:15-17

15"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.

16"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

17"If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

• Private -> I PMed you and told you were wrong about what you are teaching.
  
• One or two with you -> I printed and showed the pastors some of your teachings from this forum. The pastor came with me to you in the congregation after the service to tell you what your are teaching is wrong.
  
• If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church -> You continue in your false teaching and the pastors, both of them, on two separate occasions told you from the pulpit that not everyone is saved.
  

Again, you see me as the source of your problem. Not admitting that what you are teaching is a lie makes you the source of your problem.

Until you start seeing yourself as the source of your problems, you will never be able to overcome them.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I would prefer to burn in Hell with my fellow sinners,

then to live in Heaven with an un-merciful God.

God is merciful, ... on His terms, not yours.

[godsbutterfly]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

I didn't cause trouble for you. You caused your own trouble. I was true to this scripture.

• Private -> I PMed you and told you were wrong about what you are teaching.
  
• One or two with you -> I printed and showed the pastors some of your teachings from this forum. The pastor came with me to you in the congregation after the service to tell you what your are teaching is wrong.
  
• If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church -> You continue in your false teaching and the pastors, both of them, on two separate occasions told you from the pulpit that not everyone is saved.
  

Again, you see me as the source of your problem. Not admitting that what you are teaching is a lie makes you the source of your problem.

Until you start seeing yourself as the source of your problems, you will never be able to overcome them.

I had already seen what you had posted about this previously so I thought this was the same church he was talking about.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

oh, hello pot.

(note: I don't agree with JPC in any way, shape, or form.)

Resorting to name calling.

I agree with the whole Bible, not what I pick and choose. If I find scripture that is not in line with what I believe, it is not the Bible that is wrong. It is me that is wrong, and it is me that must change.