the moral chicken and egg

[This_person]

Originally Posted by tommyjones

but its not called the religion of the experience, or the moral of the religion.....

and.....?

[tommyjones]

Originally Posted by This_person

and.....?

morality is indenpendant of religion

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by This_person

It's the foundation, the principle behind the morality.

This may be true for you, but it certainly isn't for an atheist like myself. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

This may be true for you, but it certainly isn't for an atheist like myself. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

A person's ethical behavior, yes. That person's morality, no. See the definition of morality for this distinction.

And, as told many times before, a moral person, a religious person, is not controlled by punishment and reward. A moral person, a religious person, is controlled internally, and does right (and avoids wrong) to glorify that person's vision of their diety. If a person is acting out of fear of punishment, or hope of reward, they're not acting morally. They're acting selfishly. This, my friend, is the true difference.

[toppick08 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

This may be true for you, but it certainly isn't for an atheist like myself. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

I hope you remember this when your on your death bed. It'll be like pissin' in the wind.

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by toppick08

I hope you remember this when your on your death bed. It'll be like pissin' in the wind.

Why wouldn't I remember it? Unless I had alzheimers or something...??

[toppick08 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

Why wouldn't I remember it? Unless I had alzheimers or something...??

Hell will ease your mind.

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by toppick08

Hell will ease your mind.

You're asserting that I believe in hell. Hell doesn't exist in my worldview, so your claims are unfounded and don't apply.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by This_person

A moral person, a religious person, is controlled internally, and does right (and avoids wrong) to glorify that person's vision of their diety. If a person is acting out of fear of punishment, or hope of reward, they're not acting morally. They're acting selfishly. This, my friend, is the true difference.

I dunno .... I don't really see people doing good to glorify any particular diety. It's kind of hard to just do good, when the everpresent threat of eternity in hell is looming.

I mean, you can't just unknow that there is an ultimate goal to work towards.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by toppick08

Hell will ease your mind.

lol .... see T_p, this is what I'm talking about.

(no offense toppick)