Osteen as heretic?

[craberta]

I am just not feeling it 2A, I think it'e your delivery...It's like your yelling at me, and I want to feel like you are angry. But I am tired and should probably go to sleep.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Being a motivational speaker and doing the work of God are two different things.

I don't listen to him, so my comments are generalizations about any speaker that may use Biblical references. If the message is primarily about men or things or the attainment of things or worldly happiness, then the message is not doing the work of God in my opinion. A message doing the will of God will be about bringing honor, praise, and glory to God and about the saving grace provided by God.

...because I think that is what his theological critics were getting at, though I missed some parts of the segment that may have clarified this argument.

In any event, whenever I have listened to Osteen, it never occurred to me that he was Tony Robbins but that he was very much speaking about the power of the Lord and the glory of God, the power of prayer and the power and strength one can gain, simply for the asking if you give yourself to the Lord.

So, two questions, aren't all pastors and preachers primarily motivational speakers or, at least, claiming to be so? And isn't motivating folks to live better, to be better, for themselves and their loved ones, in the name of God, isn't that the work of the Lord?

If so, then is it not a simple question of whether or not the pastor is basing his motivation on religious faith and scripture or not, and, if so, I don't see how anyone could claim Osteen is NOT all about God.

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

God loves YOU! You are His. He created you. God does not create junk.

...that is non sense. God created Adolph Hitler. God created Pol Pot. God created Joe Stalin. Whether they did the work of the Lord or not doesn't seem to bear any sort of discussion. God has made all sorts of clunkers who chose various levels of evil. That qualifies as junk and for theologians to take exception to Olsteen because is he, in their view, focus's too much on the individual is interesting to me. It seems to me that the individual that was Hitler, that was Stalin, that was Pol Pot could very much have used some ministry that focused on them being better people in and of themselves first and foremost.

Again, you said you don't watch the guy, so, I understand you not having a direct opinion but, again, it interests me that actual theologians, not atheists, not agnostics, but people who are versed and studied in the faith, claim he is not doing the work of the Lord.

It is my impression that had he been Adolph's pastor, history may have been rather different. For the better of mankind.

That has to, by definition, be the work of God. Doesn't it?

[Larry Gude (Premo)]

Originally Posted by craberta

..but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.

...you a question; What you just described; does that make you feel and think and act more like you may well be a child of God, a servant of the Lord, a useful part of something bigger? Or does it make you think more about just your own worldly self interest? Focus out v. focus in. More generous to your fellow man v. more interest in your self. Etc.

I am trying to understand all of this in the light of what could possibly be out side the work of God in Osteens ministry if it is the former. If it is the latter, then I see the issue.

[Roxygirl13]

Just wanted to chime in....does anyone remember not that long ago the big hype on a book called, "The Secret"...it was very similiar I think to Joel's message. No, that book had nothing to do w/ religion or God but just being positive, visualizing what you want, where you want to be and believing in yourself...with that good things will happen, even if it's only feeling better about YOU! People went crazy over that book and I see why, everyone wants to be inspired and if it makes you feel good (and helps you feel better about yourself and your life)....then why not!? It's all in what you take from it, love it or hate...but I think Joel's message is a positive one. I don't make it a point to watch his show but if I pass it by I would take a minute to listen.

Originally Posted by JPC sr

Olsteen link does not dumb down religion.



I find that Olsteen is very effective and his sermons are very well composed.

True religion is more-so about the individuals then about God because God is concerned about individuals.

If one watches Olsteen then see that he must work hard on his sermons as they are well planned out to support the message and Olsteen delivers the message like it is just simple talking without any speech writer.

Even if one does not like his message, then it would still be hard to deny that Olsteen is a true professional with high standards and high demands on his delivery.

Olsteen is an impressive speaker.

I hate to do this but for once ill have to agree with you

[toppick08 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by wkndbeacher

I hate to do this but for once ill have to agree with you

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by Kain99

Bubba, I have cautioned you so many times.... Lambs do not follow lions.

Well I have to agree with "Kain" on this one.

You go girl.

Originally Posted by JPC sr

Well I have to agree with "Kain" on this one.

You go girl.

Well if Kain said it, its gotta be gold

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by craberta

As a person who has not read the bible yet, (but I fully intend to and very soon) It seems to me personally that all i ever here is negative, blah blah...your going to hell if you don't beleive or whatever. To hear something possitive for once is refreshing to me, and those thousands of people who go to that church, and watch his shows. I would much rather watch VH1, Or my soaps, and I do, but when he is on, I listen, and I find myself feeling good about God, faith, and it softens my heart too! instead of feeling fear, and wanting to avoid, I want to know more, the good and the bad. O know I am probably not going to heaven, but as long as I am here right now, pretending that God loves me, I am special well, it made me very generouse and unselfish and unafraid this Christmas, and for the first time in years, I unpacked my nativity scene and put it by the front door.

You have the Hell being just a fear tactic right because Jesus and God said particularly to love thy enemies, link HERE.

Jesus paid the penalty of sin for everybody so everyone gets saved and not even one gets lost.

The cross was not for the righteous nor the self righteous but for us sinners and the cross paid in full not partial payment.

I came out of Catholicism myself and I use to be angry at the Church but now I see the fear as a weakness and so I respect them again because "loving thy enemies" is a hard concept for the mortal men (male and female) to see instead of their fear driven Hell.

God does not torture and torment His enemies in the mystical Hell because Jesus paid the price in full for everyone to be saved.

It is not a choice nor an option, the salvation of all is the free gift from our Father God to His many children.