Osteen as heretic?

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kain99

This is not my interpretation of Hitler at all. I do believe in Evil, and I attribute all atrocites to Evil itself.... Not God.

In my heart I trust, that God hated Hitler as much as the world did.

I belive that God bleeds.

God uses the evil done by satan and humans to accomplish His own plans. He knew it would happen before it did (omniscience) and He knew how to use it for good.

I do not believe God hated Hitler. God does not hate His creation. He hates sin. I think God hated the sin and the evil and the bloodshed that Hitler did and directed, but God used it for His purpose of chastising the Jews and bringing them out of the dispersion and back to the nation of Israel.

He bled on the cross. He does not need to now; once for all.

[Kain99]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

God uses the evil done by satan and humans to accomplish His own plans. He knew it would happen before it did (omniscience) and He knew how to use it for good.

I do not believe God hated Hitler. God does not hate His creation. He hates sin. I think God hated the sin and the evil and the bloodshed that Hitler did and directed, but God used it for His purpose of chastising the Jews and bringing them out of the dispersion and back to the nation of Israel.

He bled on the cross. He does not need to now; once for all.

If you are saying, that God saw great evil and turned the tide by creating good from it we are on the same side.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kain99

If you are saying, that God saw great evil and turned the tide by creating good from it we are on the same side.

I am saying that nothing happens without God's knowledge and permission. I am saying that the Bible plainly says that no one comes to into power unless God allows it. Romans 13:1 is not veiled in any way. Hitler came to power because God allowed him to come to power. Then God used Hitler to persecute the Jews. Then God moved on the people of the earth to have pity on the Jews and restore the nation of Israel. The total sequence of events, the BIG picture, all worked as God planned.

Romans 8:26-39

26In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;

27and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?

32He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

33Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;

34who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.

35Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36Just as it is written,
"FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG;
WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."

37But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.

38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,

39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[JPC sr]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Evil is not of God, but He does allow it to befall us.

Originally Posted by Pandora

^ No need for me to disagree, you pretty much summed up what I said in that sentence; yet, I couldn't find the right words to say it.

I can not accept that the loving God "allows" evil and pain because that is a violent concept and God is not violent.

People believe God is violent and talk of God's huge violence and I find that wrong.

It is not correct to say God could have struck down one like Hitler because that would be the sin of murder and if God did then there are many MANY more people that God would be expected to strike down.

So people claim that God "allows" it and I find the opposite to be true.

God cries and moans and God is powerless against the cruelties of mankind until we mature and get saved from our own wickedness.

Both God and all of creation feel the lingering pain link HERE.

Having long-suffering patience and waiting for the right time does not mean God is "allowing" it.

[Kain99]

Again, I do not believe that stuff. My God, is Daddy God.

You are very book smart 2A or at least, you have a great online bible at hand...

You do realize, that others read the very same words that you do and derive drastically different meanings.

Your words have always been, and will always be, your personal translation.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by JPC sr

I can not accept that the loving God "allows" evil and pain because that is a violent concept and God is not violent.

People believe God is violent and talk of God's huge violence and I find that wrong.

It is not correct to say God could have struck down one like Hitler because that would be the sin of murder and if God did then there are many MANY more people that God would be expected to strike down.

So people claim that God "allows" it and I find the opposite to be true.

God cries and moans and God is powerless against the cruelties of mankind until we mature and get saved from our own wickedness.

Both God and all of creation feel the lingering pain link HERE.

Having long-suffering patience and waiting for the right time does not mean God is "allowing" it.

Did you ever read the Bible? You say you have, but somehow, I don't believe it. Ever read the Book of Job? Satan asked to test Job and God gave His permission.

You have to read the WHOLE Bible and BELIEVE the WHOLE Bible or you don't get the WHOLE picture.

[Kain99]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Did you ever read the Bible? You say you have, but somehow, I don't believe it. Ever read the Book of Job? Satan asked to test Job and God gave His permission.

You have to read the WHOLE Bible and BELIEVE the WHOLE Bible or you don't get the WHOLE picture.

Lay off of JPC already! Crap! The only thing he is saying, is that His God is a Loving God.

You spend hours disputing this? What the Hell has happened to you?

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kain99

Again, I do not believe that stuff. My God, is Daddy God.

You are very book smart 2A or at least, you have a great online bible at hand...

You do realize, that others read the very same words that you do and derive drastically different meanings.

Your words have always been, and will always be, your personal translation.

My God is the Father, too. My earthly father loved me very much, and he spanked me when I needed it. Does it not stand to reason that the Father of all creation would chastise His children when they need it?

Do you believe in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? The flood of Noah? Job? The persecution of the Jews by Egypt? The wars where Israel was defeated and led into captivity? They are all in the Bible and God claims them all. They are there for the reading. If you don't then I understand why you have an opposing opinion. I believe the word of God, the Bible verbatim.

The reason I post scripture in context is to keep as much of me out of it as possible. A few years ago I was posting my opinion and not scripture and catching so much criticism from you and others, I prayed about what to do. God, plain as I am typing this, told me to just post scripture. If people had a problem with it, it was not with me that they had the problem.

[Kain99]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

My God is the Father, too. My earthly father loved me very much, and he spanked me when I needed it. Does it not stand to reason that the Father of all creation would chastise His children when they need it?

Do you believe in the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? The flood of Noah? Job? The persecution of the Jews by Egypt? The wars where Israel was defeated and led into captivity? They are all in the Bible and God claims them all. They are there for the reading. If you don't then I understand why you have an opposing opinion. I believe the word of God, the Bible verbatim.

The reason I post scripture in context is to keep as much of me out of it as possible. A few years ago I was posting my opinion and not scripture and catching so much criticism from you and others, I prayed about what to do. God, plain as I am typing this, told me to just post scripture. If people had a problem with it, it was not with me that they had the problem.

I definitely have a problem..... I sit here and watch you, night after night drive people away from Christ!

You don't see it because you have an agenda! The 2A agenda, and it is dangerous.

God did NOT direct you, to slap down those just getting their feet wet Buster!

Rome was not built in a day and you my friend, need to go back to school!

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Kain99

Lay off of JPC already! Crap! The only thing he is saying, is that His God is a Loving God.

You spend hours disputing this? What the Hell has happened to you?

JPC spouts new age everyone is saved stuff that is exactly what the Nicolaitans believed. They believed it was OK to sin because everyone gets saved. What did Jesus say to John in Revelation 2?

Revelation 2:6'Yet this you do have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.

His god is not the God of the Bible. JPC says he does not believe the Bible.

God is absolutely the God of love, but He hates sin. He created the lake of fire and it is real despite what JPC or anyone else may believe.

Revelation 20:10-15

10And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Judgment at the Throne of God
11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.

12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

15And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The only reason there has been so much said about hell or the lake of fire is because of the heresy that JPC is teaching. If he did not proclaim those lies, then the scripture about the punishment of satan, his followers, and those who's names are not in the Book of Life would not occupy so much space and time.

I would much rather proclaim the gracious of God and do, but when JPC lies, then the lie must be refuted for what it is.

If you believe the Bible, why would you defend a heretic?