A Question For My Evolutionist Friends

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by Marie

Actually I can give you proven test for God, People that hate God that get saved they change everything they once love they now hate and Every thing they hated they now love. I met a guy a few months ago that was a staunch atheist. He went to see his professor not knowing he was a Christian and the guy had a poster on his door about the 3 literal days of creation.

I've encountered a few people who went in the opposite direction - they were staunch fundamentalists and then became staunch atheists, but still retaining a zeal that was overwhelming. I find myself repulsed by both camps' insistence on their absolute certanity. I have never encountered an atheist who had formerly worshipped in a moderate denomination, or a moderate worshipper who was a former atheist, although such people may exist.

The likely explanation is that some people have fanatical personalities and are attracted to extreme ideological positions because they are looking for external meaning. Two commentators, David Horowitz and John Stossel, went from being smugly self-righteous far-lefties to being smugly self-righteous far-righties, without changing their basic personalities.

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by This_person

There is no transitional species fossils

Here's one that has been known for almost 150 years:

All About Archaeopteryx

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Tonio

It's a mistake to assume that a religious background automatically leads to a belief in the "sacredness" of individual life, or that a lack of it automatically excludes such a belief. I use that word in quotes because religion has no monopoly on that aspect of life. That mistake cannot and should not depend on any particular claims about the existence of supernatural life.

I agree. It's accurate as a stereotype or generality, but certainly not 100% accurate per person involved.

As an aside, I have long been frustrated with fundamentalist pro-lifers because they also oppose contraception and sex education, two ways for preventing unwanted pregnancies.

Again, I agree. Nothing works as well as abstinence, and that should be the strongest focus of education. Contraceptives for those that choose the risk should be mentioned by parents to their young adult kids when talking about sex, but the risk should be emphasized more than the potential of stopping an unwanted pregnancy. Then, all of that followed up with what to do should an unwanted pregnancy exist - the options for who shall raise the child.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Here's one that has been known for almost 150 years:

All About Archaeopteryx

I'll have to take the time and read and study this. Thanks for the link!

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by This_person

Nothing works as well as abstinence, and that should be the strongest focus of education.

Abstinence-only education doesn't work in preventing pregnancy or STDs. The abstinence pledges only delay sexual activity instead of preventing it. These actually encourage risky sexual behavior, especially "still technically a virgin" behavior, and they discourage teens from seeking treatment for STDs. I don't know if these would be true for education talks about contraception but still focuses on abstinence.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Abstinence-only education doesn't work in preventing pregnancy or STDs. The abstinence pledges only delay sexual activity instead of preventing it. These actually encourage risky sexual behavior, especially "still technically a virgin" behavior, and they discourage teens from seeking treatment for STDs. I don't know if these would be true for education talks about contraception but still focuses on abstinence.

Nothing but hormones encourages risky sexual behavior.

I don't see how teens would be discouraged from seeking medical treatment. Parents either teach their kids that honesty and openness with their parents is always best (and demonstrate that by always being there for their kids), or they don't. Contraceptive behavior or not won't change the basic relationship kids have with their parents.

Contraceptives exist, and it would be stupid for parents (not phys ed teachers) not to discuss them with their kids. Teach them for what they are - Russian Roulette with a few more open chambers. There is but one 100% birth control method, and anything else is taking a huge risk (not in percent, but in consequence, thus the Russian Roulette reference). However, should they choose the behavior their body is trying to get them to do, some of the contraceptives can help prevent STD's (remember, if he'll/she'll do it with you pre-marriage, it's not improbably he/she will/has done it with someone else).

So, I think we overall agree.

[Tonio]

Originally Posted by This_person

I don't see how teens would be discouraged from seeking medical treatment. Parents either teach their kids that honesty and openness with their parents is always best (and demonstrate that by always being there for their kids), or they don't. Contraceptive behavior or not won't change the basic relationship kids have with their parents.

Some teens learn from their parents to equate sex with fear and shame, and often the parents teach this without realizing what they are doing. Apparently fear and shame are part of Alabama's notorious abstinence-only curriculum. Those things lead teens who lose their virginity to see themselves as bad and to fear coming forward for treatment. Also, teaching that sex is inherently bad makes it more attractive as an outlet for rebellion, encouraging teens to be more sexually active than they would be otherwise.

Originally Posted by This_person

Contraceptives exist, and it would be stupid for parents (not phys ed teachers) not to discuss them with their kids.

Many school districts use science teachers, who are generally more informed about the subject than their colleagues in phys ed. While parents should obviously discuss them as well, I see the parents' largest role here as dealing with the self-esteem issues, such as teaching daughters to be skeptical about the BS that boys would use to get them in the sack, or teaching sons not to pressure girls.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Some teens learn from their parents to equate sex with fear and shame, and often the parents teach this without realizing what they are doing. Apparently fear and shame are part of Alabama's notorious abstinence-only curriculum. Those things lead teens who lose their virginity to see themselves as bad and to fear coming forward for treatment. Also, teaching that sex is inherently bad makes it more attractive as an outlet for rebellion, encouraging teens to be more sexually active than they would be otherwise.

And, the Alabama curriculum is but one example of why schools should not be involved with teaching anything outside of biology in regards to sexual activity. Fear, shame, pride, tolerance, intolerance, abstinence, contraception.....these are the parent's domain, not the school system's. If a parent's moral code is such that premarital sex is shameful, then they should teach that. If their moral code is such that premarital sex is tolerable, even acceptable, then they should teach that. But, the parents should be the ones teaching it, not the school systems.

Many school districts use science teachers, who are generally more informed about the subject than their colleagues in phys ed. While parents should obviously discuss them as well, I see the parents' largest role here as dealing with the self-esteem issues, such as teaching daughters to be skeptical about the BS that boys would use to get them in the sack, or teaching sons not to pressure girls.

I see the parent's role as far more than that, but those are certainly parts of what parents should cover. Having the biology teacher teach the science of reproduction is most appropriate.

I'm guess that your children are either grown, or very young. Unfortunately for all of us, the standards have changed a great deal. Today, it is at least as common to have the girls pressuring the boys as vice versa. Celebrated pregnant unmarried teens, songs like "I Kissed A Girl" (sung by a girl), movies like "Juno" where the heroine is such because she gave birth and gave the baby up for adoption (in high school), etc., etc., are part of a culture of sexual promiscuity being not just the norm, but demanded of the girls today. A sick, sad state of affairs, if you ask me.