Christians should keep Scripture out of politics

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by This_person

I realize no one is saying it can't be discussed by itself in context. My point is that there is no science behind human evolution from any source but humans. Any other discussion is conjecture with no more science behind it than any other religious concept, and should either be taught as such, or other ideas with similar basis should not be singled out for exclusion.

And there is no source of God except from the word of Humans. The difference is one (Science) is actively researching the origin, the other (Religion) says the origin is known.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

And there is no source of God except from the word of Humans. The difference is one (Science) is actively researching the origin, the other (Religion) says the origin is known.

Okay, and the actual science behind each is equal.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

And there is no source of God except from the word of Humans. The difference is one (Science) is actively researching the origin, the other (Religion) says the origin is known.

Well, isn't that interesting. We know the answer and you don't . Well, actually you do, you just refuse to accept it.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

no I wouldn't.

For all I know it could be. If that's how it turns out then that's cool.

all the same I'd rather be looking then stuck in complacency. Think of all the things we'd never know if the whole world just said 'this is the way it is'.

I'd hardly call believers complacent. I have a lot of questions. I haven't stopped reading and learning because I feel the bible gives me all the answers. The bible doesn't give me all the answers. So I am always interested in what science has to tell us about our universe. But I also take what they promote with a grain of salt.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I'd hardly call believers complacent. I have a lot of questions. I haven't stopped reading and learning because I feel the bible gives me all the answers. The bible doesn't give me all the answers. So I am always interested in what science has to tell us about our universe. But I also take what they promote with a grain of salt.

so what's the problem?

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Well, isn't that interesting. We know the answer and you don't . Well, actually you do, you just refuse to accept it.

yeah .... show me the proof.

march god on down and ask him to show us how he did it.

ah.

heh.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

yeah .... show me the proof.

march god on down and ask him to show us how he did it.

ah.

heh.

Once again, you show you get it, and yet don't understand that you do.

We have the same proof you do! (ie, you have the same proof we do) Makes our ideas equals.

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

yeah .... show me the proof.

march god on down and ask him to show us how he did it.

ah.

heh.

Here we go again.

Show me the proof that life sprang up out of nothing. March me right down to that black hole 50 billion light years away and show me it really exists.

[wildsage]

Originally Posted by This_person

So, again, show me the test for human and plant and insect "evolution" from a single life source.

Scientists haven't duplicated evolution but they have discovered chemical reactions that are similar to what are believed to be the precursors of life. But since you are familiar with the term "abiogenesis" you already know that, you just choose not to believe it. Fine, your prerogative; but to continue this comparison of faith and science just provide some evidence, something that backs up your belief, that is as close to "proof" as that is, or just admit that you have nothing but a story in a book.

Originally Posted by This_person

You don't know about a specific test, except that it's English moths?

As if you didn't know (Peppered moth evolution): - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The evolution of the peppered moth over the last two hundred years has been studied in detail. Originally, the vast majority of peppered moths had light colouration, which effectively camouflaged them against the light-coloured trees and lichens which they rested upon. However, because of widespread pollution during the Industrial Revolution in England, many of the lichens died out, and the trees that peppered moths rested on became blackened by soot, causing most of the light-coloured moths, or typica, to die off from predation. At the same time, the dark-coloured, or melanic, moths, carbonaria, flourished because of their ability to hide on the darkened trees.

[wildsage]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I thought we were talking about religion. Religion as a mystical magical belief system. Now you want to narrow this discussion to miracles? For Christianity as a whole miracles are low on the totem pole of what defines our faith. I was addressing your contention of science being around centuries and contending that my faith has been around for much longer. If time is even an arguable factor.

I did not understand what your statement "faith in the intervention of a magical occurrence OVER SEVERAL MILLENIA" was trying to prove. If your claim is that religion has been around longer than science, then prove it. Did the earliest species of humans develop a theology before they mastered fire? Did they discover that meat helped them survive before they thought of a god to thank for it? (And if time is the yardstick, then Judaism, Buddhism & Jainism all have Christianity beat.)

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Okay… give me the tangible elements that are defined under E=MC2? Energy. What specifically is energy? Mass. [...] But you can’t really prove it. You have to believe the math is right.

You want tangible? Jump out of an airplane at 10,000 feet without a parachute (E=mc²) while praying to your god of choice to save you from death (faith).

Originally Posted by PsyOps

What natural laws? You mean laws that are only observable from earth?

At least those laws, upon which science is based, ARE observable. What does religion have that is equivalent?

Originally Posted by PsyOps

That’s why I don’t dismiss anything.

From your posts, you apparently dismiss everything that has anything to do with math or science. To discard theories of the Einsteins & Hawkings of the world, one really has to be of the same mental caliber as them (which I do not claim to be).

Originally Posted by PsyOps

What is it that causes hydrogen and oxygen to cling together to form water? Certainly not magic. I mean water is one our more simple compounds and we can’t even explain what energy causes these two elements to cling together in such a perfect manner to form water.

Actually, molecular bonding has been explained (and it is a bit easier to understand than black holes).

Originally Posted by PsyOps

I believe all these factors co-exist. I believe just as we have several dimensions in space and time that there is also a spiritual dimension that science prefers to ignore for reasons I can’t explain. To me it’s less about deciding which religion is right and coming to the conclusion that there is a spiritual world that exists and we should seek it out. I have and believe as a Christian.

Some of us believe in a human spirituality and that it resides in ourselves; we don't seek an external source for it. I am quite comfortable to let you have your belief without trying to force mine on you, and I ask the same. When it comes to equating your belief to knowledge (secular, rational, nondenominational) is where we have conflict. Once again, the definitions of faith & science are exclusive.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

It’s not my intent to disclaim science. I’m simply playing the reverse role of questioning the validity of it in the same way you question the validity of God.

I only question your belief in your deity when you try to validate it by comparing it with science, or claim that it is the "right" one over all of the others (or none at all). No one needs a reason to believe as they do until they try to convince (coerce) others.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Real, rational people believe in God.

And real, rational people also DON'T believe in a god.