Genesis 22

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Yes. Here is the account from Luke, Ch. 1:

26: And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27: To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28: And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29: And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30: And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37: For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38: And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
39: And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

Read the definitive statements in verses 30 through 35. It does not sound as if Mary had much of a choice, the Angel is telling her what WILL be (as opposed to asking permission, and what COULD be).

So much for free will eh?

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Read the definitive statements in verses 30 through 35. It does not sound as if Mary had much of a choice, the Angel is telling her what WILL be (as opposed to asking permission, and what COULD be).

So much for free will eh?

Skip down to verse 38, it appears that Mary doesn't think this is such a bad idea.

38: And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

Looks pretty definitive to me that Mary agreed to the offer of her being the Blessed Mother of the Saviour of mankind.

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Yes. Here is the account from Luke, Ch. 1:

26: And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
27: To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28: And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29: And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30: And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
34: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37: For with God nothing shall be impossible.
38: And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.
39: And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;

I see your typeings/writings
however all I read is

prego virgins??? Damn I hope thats not the story my daughter comes home with when she is 30yo

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Both are correct:

Mary and Joseph were betrothed (not yet married) when the Divine Conception occurred. She was a virgin.

Upon the marriage of both Mary and Joseph, Mary remained sexually untouched by Joseph throughout her pregnancy.

Some couples still have intimate relations while the wife is carrying the child early in pregnancy. This was not the case between Joseph and Mary as she remained untouched/undefiled by sexual relations with Joseph throughout her entire pregnancy. As the Biblical account states, Joseph "knew her not" until after the birth of Christ.

Re; The name Jesus, or Emmanuel

In Hebrew, there can be many names given to describe the same individual - each name having a specific meaning. However, the English translation of the Bible, gives the basic name "Jesus" as it had become acceptable - yet His real name was Yeshua- also known as Messiah, Lamb of God, Son of God, Lord, Saviour, etc.

Remember that the Bible translators word the accounts to be better understood by the readers of a specific language.

what is considered early???? I banged the bebes momma til just a few days before my children were born. Further was mary's hyman still intact after the birth of "Jesus"????

not to be a pest but I ain't believing!!!

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by SamSpade

You mean like floating to the surface out of the sea-foam on a half-shell, fully grown?

What's so terrible an idea about being incarnated like a human child, enduring every facet of human existence that you and I experience?

Maybe you think it was a bad idea - I think it was a good one.

divine rape lol

god on the stands is all like "she never said no" and "gabrial said she was totally into it!!"

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Skip down to verse 38, it appears that Mary doesn't think this is such a bad idea.

38: And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word.

Looks pretty definitive to me that Mary agreed to the offer of her being the Blessed Mother of the Saviour of mankind.

You need to understand what a definitive statement is.

31: And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (Bolded section is the definitive statement from the angel informing Mary of what will happen, its already decided)
32: He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.(32 and 33 is the Angel informing Mary of who/what this child is, once again its already decided, and hes just being kind to inform Mary)
34: Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Bolded section is the definitive statement from the angel informing Mary of how it will happen, its already decided)
36: And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
37: For with God nothing shall be impossible.

Mary's consent didnt matter, God and the Angel were informing her its already decided.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

You need to understand what a definitive statement is.

Mary's consent didnt matter, God and the Angel were informing her its already decided.

God (being God) foreknew that Mary would consent as it would be considered a great honor to be chosen by the God of Abraham for that specific purpose.
Hey - Jewish women ain't no fools (lol)

Also, the Bible is full of examples where God chose specific individuals to accomplish a certain task that would ultimately lead to His interaction with all of mankind and for carrying out a specific purpose.

The same goes for when Yeshua personally chose (hand-picked) the Disciples and even when He chose Judas Iscariot, the one who would betray Him, again for a specific purpose.

These all culminate in God's working within humanity to bring His Message and Offer of His Love, Compassion and Forgiveness to any person who wishes to accept His Divine Authority in their personal life.

God's Love for you is already in place; it's a done deal through the Atoning Blood of Yeshua HaMashiach. However, it is your free-will whether you wish to believe that or not and accept eternal life that is yours for the asking.

In other words: You can love someone but you cannot force them to love you.

Here is a definitive act of God toward mankind as mentioned in
Romans Ch. 5, verses:

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

God (being God) foreknew that Mary would consent as it would be considered a great honor to be chosen by the God of Abraham for that specific purpose.
Hey - Jewish women ain't no fools (lol)

It's called being polite!

god should have asked.

(this is the most pointless, yet most fun arguement ever)

[Xaquin44]

also, foreknowing everything is the same thing as not having free will.

If everything is already foretold and everything happens exactly the way god knows it will then there isn't any room for actual freedom since it's all one big script.

[SamSpade]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

also, foreknowing everything is the same thing as not having free will.

If everything is already foretold and everything happens exactly the way god knows it will then there isn't any room for actual freedom since it's all one big script.

Dammit I forgot we've been down this road before. And your arguments were lame, then. Just because I know what you're going to do tomorrow doesn't obviate your choice to make that decision. Knowing the future doesn't "create" fate.

And you can go on, but I'm done.