Genesis 22

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

What I am saying is that God did not determine your fate; you are the one that decided what your fate would be.

It's just that God foreknows what you will have decided. That is not pre-determination by God in the sense that He was the one who made the decision for you. You made it yourself so you in fact you already would know what your eternal destiny will be at this point.

Lost - without Christ

Saved - through Christ

:edit:

Your explanation (above) is God recording your Fate.Fate by definition means expected result or determination.

Could God record your fate incorrectly?

When God forsaw your fate, did he forsee the Possibilities or did he Forsee what definitive conclusion ?

Possibility = You will probably turn right
Definitive Conclusion = You will turn right

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

And your changing the conversation again. No where did i state if God saw you turn right, then he's forcing you to turn right.

But God forsaw you make turn to the Right, you do not have the free will to turn Left.

He/She's God, she's all knowing/all seeing/all everthing, how could you turn Left ¿

It's an example and contradiction that faithers dont like to discuss, because they want to "think" they have free will, when they can't truly have it if they believe God to be who they think he/she is.

Eventually we'll get either a "God works in mysterious ways" (or variation) because the answer to the question isnt one a believer wants to address

Well, it's actually been addressed repeatedly. You're just choosing to not get it.

If you turn right, YOU turned right. Had you decided to turn left, YOU would have decided to turn left. If you watched a video of what you did, knowing full well that you were going to turn right ('cuz you have a good memory of the event), that doesn't take away the free will you had in deciding to turn right. YOU decide, God knows. How is that hard to follow?

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by This_person

Well, it's actually been addressed repeatedly. You're just choosing to not get it.

If you turn right, YOU turned right. Had you decided to turn left, YOU would have decided to turn left. If you watched a video of what you did, knowing full well that you were going to turn right ('cuz you have a good memory of the event), that doesn't take away the free will you had in deciding to turn right. YOU decide, God knows. How is that hard to follow?

God forsaw you turn right, could you turn left?

How hard is that to follow?

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

God forsaw you turn right, could you turn left?

How hard is that to follow?

plus he's saying things about a video, which is something that has already happened. Gods will is something that is going to happen.

The two examples are not similar and the movie example is wrong.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Your explanation (above) is God recording your Fate.Fate by definition means expected result or determination.

Could God record your fate incorrectly?

When God forsaw your fate, did he forsee the Possibilities or did he Forsee what definitive conclusion ?

Possibility = You will probably turn right
Definitive Conclusion = You will turn right

Nucklesack, when you know a person better than anyone else (down to the letter) you know exactly what their reaction to a certain situation will be.

Perhaps you know an extremely good friend that will always say "Yes" whenever you ask a favor. Or, perhaps you know a certain individual who dislikes you and know you cannot count on them because of their personal demeanor. Yet you will offer them a chance at making amends with you because you'd still like to be their friend.

God is that knowing of all mankind just as we, within our very limited human evaluation, can know what someone will do.

Do you cause a person to turn left after he/she has been warned to turn right? Or is it that you know him/her so well that no matter what your influence is at helping them you know what their response will be?

Another thought:
Have you ever really loved and cared for a certain person only to have them reject you and not want anything to do with you? That's how it is when God offers His Love toward mankind yet He is rejected by many people.

Does God cause people to hate Him, or does God's enemy, Satan, have a stronger influence which was preferred in the lives of those who reject God?

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

then he shouldn't make it so.

You cannot force someone to love and accept you.

Neither will God force anyone to love and accept Him no matter how much He extends His Love and Forgiveness. That is a personal decision made by those who wish to accept God's Plan of Salvation or choose to reject it. God leaves that decision up to every individual.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

You cannot force someone to love and accept you.

Neither will God force anyone to love and accept Him no matter how much He extends His Love and Forgiveness. That is a personal decision made by those who wish to accept God's Plan of Salvation or choose to reject it. God leaves that decision up to every individual.

sorry, it doesn't fit.

god doesn't leave the decision up to the individual, becuase the decision is made, 100% set in stone, before the given person is even born.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Xaquin44

sorry, it doesn't fit.

god doesn't leave the decision up to the individual, becuase the decision is made, 100% set in stone, before the given person is even born.

Sorry Xaquin. You made that decision during your lifetime. From the beginning, God knew what decision you would end up making.

You are the one who sets your decision in stone and God has to honor your free-will decision. Yes, I repeat, God has to honor your free-will decision.

That doesn't mean He will ever stop trying to convince you to accept Him - it's just that on Judgment Day you cannot stand before God and say that you were never warned of what would happen if you rejected His Son's Atonement that was available on your behalf - but that you rejected.

[Xaquin44]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Sorry Xaquin. You made that decision during your lifetime. From the beginning, God knew what decision you would end up making.

thats funny if I'm not born yet ....

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Nucklesack, when you know a person better than anyone else (down to the letter) you know exactly what their reaction to a certain situation will be.

Perhaps you know an extremely good friend that will always say "Yes" whenever you ask a favor. Or, perhaps you know a certain individual who dislikes you and know you cannot count on them because of their personal demeanor. Yet you will offer them a chance at making amends with you because you'd still like to be their friend.

God is that knowing of all mankind just as we, within our very limited human evaluation, can know what someone will do.

Do you cause a person to turn left after he/she has been warned to turn right? Or is it that you know him/her so well that no matter what your influence is at helping them you know what their response will be?

Another thought:
Have you ever really loved and cared for a certain person only to have them reject you and not want anything to do with you? That's how it is when God offers His Love toward mankind yet He is rejected by many people.

Does God cause people to hate Him, or does God's enemy, Satan, have a stronger influence which was preferred in the lives of those who reject God?

Your talking about Possibilities you are not talking about the same thing.

You can know your friend your whole life, and be sure that he'll turn to the right. But that doesnt mean you Forsaw him turning right.

Because your argument has been that God knew eons (or 5,000 years ago) that i was going to turn right. If God is always correct/all knowing/etc. there is no way i could turn Left.

Unless your changing what God does, if your now saying that God knows the Possibilty of you doing something, thats different. That also leaves God open to being wrong... i turned left instead.