Genesis 22

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Gwydion

A question for when you return, and one that I really am quite curious about.

Why or how did we come up with the name "Jesus" then? I would have no more problem worshipping a man named Isa' than Jesus....

The name "Jesus" is believed to be the Greek translation of Yeshua, thus, it became accepted in the Gentile faith to call Him "Jesus".

Now, here is where there are various theological differences regarding the Biblical individual known as "Jesus".

The Fundamental faith in the Biblical Jesus is that He was/is The Divine Son of God, born of a virgin through the manifestation of The Holy Spirit, was the Lamb of God and crucified as a sacrifice to God and whose shed Blood atones for the sins of mankind, was entombed and resurrected from the dead, will return for a final millennial reign and is the final Judge of mankind.

There are other religions who claim various accounts of "Jesus" in their teachings but do not accept Him as being The Son of God and Saviour of mankind. Many are easily convinced that Jesus may have indeed existed but doubt His Divine Authority for being the Saviour of mankind:

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(2 Corinthians 11:4)

Some religions who claim a "Jesus" in their teachings but deny that Salvation is solely through Him include: Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Moonies...

Conclusion: There Is Only One Truth; Either Yeshua is The Saviour of mankind or He isn't.
What do you think?

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by itsbob

But the orthodox Jews, and Jews other than the J4J, don't believe the saviour has come yet, so who is this Yeshua they would speak of? Is it Yeshua that hasn't come yet? If so using his name for Jesus would be paramount to blasphemy for a Jew, and totally disrespectful of their religion.

Their prophecies of the saviour weren't ever fulfilled, only one possible even came close and it wasn't Jesus.

One reason being their scripture talks of the coming of the saviour and his followers being filled with his teachings and love of their fellow man, that every where they went there was peace in the land.. Yeah, Christians are all that!! Needless to say, that hasn't happened yet, so Christ can't be the true saviour. Not according to Jewish Prophecy.

Yes, it was/is Orthodox Judaism that could not accept a pacifist individual as their Moshiach. The Jewish priests wanted a military leader who would conquer the enemies of Israel and establish total rule over the land. Yeshua taught that one should love their enemy instead of living by the law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." (Matthew 5:38-48)

However, did you know that Orthodox Judaism is expectant of two (2) Moshiachs which include: Moschiach ben Yosef (son of Joseph) and Moshiach ben David.

Moshiach ben Yosef will appear first and be killed - afterwhich chaos and near destruction of the Jews will take place. Then, Moshiach ben David will appear to set up God's Kingdom upon this earth and vanquish the enemies of Israel.

If this is the case, then Orthodox Judaism cannot expect to have peace anytime soon even when their first expectant Moshiach (ben Yosef) appears because it is in their prophecy that chaos and near destruction of Israel will take place. So things will get even worse for Israel.

Herein is a Biblical parallel whereby it is very possible that the individual that Orthodox Judaism does come to accept as being their first Moshiach will actually be the antichrist.

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

shall I bbq some lamb for memorial day?

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

If you so much as deep down hate and/or feel contempt toward another person it is the same as murder - even though you do not carry out the act of murder. Have you ever hated anyone?God and Abraham were not "conspiring" to kill Isaac as God's test of Abraham was only a test of faith.

Yet, God is the one who gave His Son Yeshua to be "murdered" by those who conspired to kill Him because He did not agree with their "religious" philosophies. However, the "behind the scenes intention" is that God had to sacrifice His Son in order to free you from the penalty of eternal death that was passed down to mankind through the disobedience of Adam and Eve.

In other words: God proclaimed that there would be consequences of spiritual and human death that would befall upon mankind through Adam and Eve's disobedience. However, God knew that Adam and Eve would disobey thus He provided a path to forgiveness, salvation and Eternal Life for mankind through the Atoning Blood of Yeshua. This because God is not willing that anyone should perish but come to repentance and believe in His Saving Grace through His Only Begotten Son.

Why a blood sacrifice of a perfect, unblemished offering, was expected is something that only God can answer but He provided it through His Son so that no other sacrifices/blood offerings of animals needed to be done.

Accepting the Atoning Blood of Yeshua as Lord and Saviour is a done deal between God and mankind for how to receive eternal life.

No I have never hated anyone. Check my siggy.
if I had that much contempt for someone that I wished they were dead they would be dead.

[Sekhmet]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

There is still Only One Truth.

"I Am The Way, The Truth and The Life, No Man Can Come Unto The Father Except Through Me." (John 14:6)

Either Yeshua is whom He claimed or He is a liar.

Hi Starman3000m- This sounds like the inception of Josh McDowell's famously fallacious "Trilema - Either jesus was lord, liar or lunatic" reasoning.

Infelicitously, he left one out, "or the things written about Jesus were fabricated by those who wrote the gospels and passed down through the millenia as historical facts."

[Gwydion]

Originally Posted by Dougstermd

No I have never hated anyone. Check my siggy.
if I had that much contempt for someone that I wished they were dead they would be dead.

You spelled hoping wrong.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Sekhmet

Hi Starman3000m- This sounds like the inception of Josh McDowell's famously fallacious "Trilema - Either jesus was lord, liar or lunatic" reasoning.

Infelicitously, he left one out, "or the things written about Jesus were fabricated by those who wrote the gospels and passed down through the millenia as historical facts."

Yes, that could be said of any historical figure. Even in the secular world we find that many heroes were not as good a role model as they are made out to be.

And, agreed - there are many accounts of various "religious figures" that one could say were "fabricated". However, in the personal experience of accepting Yeshua as Lord and Saviour one becomes spiritually "born-again" and the result is a changed life wherein there is no doubt that God not only exists but that accepting Yeshua's Atonement instills a peace that surpasses understanding. There is no longer an emptiness within the soul and one is able to truly know the Freedom of Forgiveness that is provided by God through faith in Christ.

There is enough proof to indicate that Yeshua existed, even within Orthodox Judaism which does not believe that He was the Suffering Servant and prophesied Moshiach. However, as you indicate, one needs to be able to divide Truth from Error. Was Yeshua really whom He claimed to be and as the accounts in the Gospels claim?

If not then the faith and teachings of Yeshua are in vain and it is OK to return to the Orthodox Judaic teachings of the Talmud with the four categories of Capital Punishment being exacted on the people:

Stoning
Burning
Decapitation
Strangulation.

It was Yeshua who challenged these responses and even elevated the status of women in society.

Should we return to the pre-Yeshua teachings, as Islam has done?

Conclusion: There Is Still Only One Truth:
Either Yeshua is whom He claimed and whom others testified/testify of or He and everyone of His followers are all liars.

[clevalley (Premo)]

Originally Posted by itsbob

So men could talk to God then, but not now?

Does God not have At&T??

God and Baby Jesus don't have At&T which means less bars in places like heaven.


Can you hear me now?

Can you hear me now is Verizon...

...but since you referenced AT&T this would truly mean they would have an iPhone, thus they really can do anything!

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

God and Abraham were not "conspiring" to kill Isaac as God's test of Abraham was only a test of faith.
.

Your playing down the verse

1. He's the all knowing creator of everything, and he doesnt know Abraham's heart?
2. Abraham didnt know it was a "Test"

[migtig]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Hmmm... Surprised? Would it really matter?

Yes, because that would either make you a Messianic Jew (which is quite interesting) or a liar. Jews believe Jesus was a great teacher and prophet, but not the Messiah.