Genesis 22

[migtig (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

LOL - If Yeshua went anywhere in the world His Jewish name would still be Yeshua.

Actually, that's not really true. The name Yeshua come from Joshua's Hebrew name, Yehoshua, which sometimes appears in its shortened form, Yeshua. Yeshua transalted into Greek becomes Iesous. In English the "y" sound was rendered as "j" and hence Jesus.

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by migtig

Yes, because that would either make you a Messianic Jew (which is quite interesting) or a liar. Jews believe Jesus was a great teacher and prophet, but not the Messiah.

Dont forget Jesus's own brother did not believe him to be the Messiah

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Dont forget Jesus's own brother did not believe him to be the Messiah

Half-brother, that is; and only at the beginning was James skeptical. The miracles Yeshua performed and His Ultimate Resurrection convinced him that Yeshua was indeed the Son of God. Just as the Roman Centurion realized:

The siblings born to Joseph and Mary were Yeshua's Half-brothers & sisters:

Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. (Mark 6:3)

Re: The Centurion:

"And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
(Mark 15:38-39)

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by migtig

Yes, because that would either make you a Messianic Jew (which is quite interesting) or a liar. Jews believe Jesus was a great teacher and prophet, but not the Messiah.

Correction: Some Orthodox Jews believe Jesus was a great teacher and prophet, but not the Messiah.

Others believe Yeshua was a fraud, blasphemer and false prophet. That is why they called for and instigated His death by crucifixion under the Roman rule of punishment for sedition and treason. But - it had to be.

Remember that the very first thousand men, women and children who became followers of Yeshua were all Jews who accepted Him as the prophesied Moschiach. Many were persecuted by the Orthodox Jews and were martyrd for their belief in Him.

Biblically, there is no longer a distinction between Jews and non-Jews when one accepts Yeshua, as we then become Born-Again Children of God through faith in His Atoning Blood.

There will always be distinctions in Judaism; Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox/Hassidic, Conservative, Messianic, etc.. I am Messianic with the expectation that Yeshua will not return until antichrist has had his time to deceive Israel and the world as prophesied.

[migtig (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Remember that the very first thousand men, women and children who became followers of Yeshua were all Jews who accepted Him as the prophesied Moschiach. Many were persecuted by the Orthodox Jews and were martyrd for their belief in Him..

Actually that's not really true either. The majority of his followers were made up of a mixture of GENTILES and Jews.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Biblically, there is no longer a distinction between Jews and non-Jews when one accepts Yeshua, as we then become Born-Again Children of God through faith in His Atoning Blood.

Actually, I'm not aware of too many Christians that would agree with you there. Nor am I aware of too many Jews who believe that either.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

There will always be distinctions in Judaism; Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox/Hassidic, Conservative, Messianic, etc.. I am Messianic with the expectation that Yeshua will not return until antichrist has had his time to deceive Israel and the world as prophesied. ..

True, there are many distinct world faiths - among Christians and among Jews and even among Buddahists; other than that, I'm going to pull the card on you. You are just blowing smoke and seeing which way the wind blows and you want to use a lot of hyperbole to mask the fact that you don't really know what you are talking about. To each their own I guess, but you shouldn't attempt to sway others to your way of thinking by lying by omission or by using misleading statements. JMO.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by migtig

...

Actually, I'm not aware of too many Christians that would agree with you there. Nor am I aware of too many Jews who believe that either.
....

If the Christians believe the Bible, they would believe this.

Romans 10:4-17

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),

7or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."

8But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

15How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

16However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"

17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Greek being a way of saying gentile.

[2ndAmendment (Premo)]

Originally Posted by migtig

Actually that's not really true either. The majority of his followers were made up of a mixture of GENTILES and Jews.
....

The Bible is your friend when you want to really know what it says.

Jesus came to the Jews. He only went to the Gentiles when the Jews rejected Him. One example.

Matthew 15:21-28

21Jesus went away from there, and withdrew into the district of Tyre and Sidon.

22And a Canaanite woman from that region came out and began to cry out, saying, "Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is cruelly demon-possessed."

23But He did not answer her a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, "Send her away, because she keeps shouting at us."

24But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

25But she came and began to bow down before Him, saying, "Lord, help me!"

26And He answered and said, "It is not good to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs."

27But she said, "Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."

28Then Jesus said to her, "O woman, your faith is great; it shall be done for you as you wish." And her daughter was healed at once.

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Half-brother, that is; and only at the beginning was James skeptical. The miracles Yeshua performed and His Ultimate Resurrection convinced him that Yeshua was indeed the Son of God. Just as the Roman Centurion realized:

The siblings born to Joseph and Mary were Yeshua's Half-brothers & sisters:

Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him. (Mark 6:3)

Re: The Centurion:

"And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
(Mark 15:38-39)

Jesus's brother James did not believe him to be the Messiah

James was a major leader for the growth of a Church, but the beliefs of that Church are different than the beliefs you hold.

The Nazarene Jew belief (Different than the Church of Nazaraene) believe that Jesus was a man (not clear if he was a prophet) and after Jesus/Yeshu died, "Nazarenes" after Jesus' hometown of Nazareth, became his followers.

Jesus' brother James, was head of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem until he was also executed by the Romans. The Nazarenes observed Jewish laws. The Romans killed many Nazarenes, for being observant Jews, during the Jewish revolt. Jews believe Jesus was a founder of a religious movement, or more specifically of the sect of the Nazarenes within Judaism.

Jesus/Yeshu own brother didnt believe he was the Messiah

According to Nazarene Jews, Jesus was a Jewish man who was executed and later given divine status by the Christian church, there is a distinction.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by migtig

Actually, I'm not aware of too many Christians that would agree with you there. Nor am I aware of too many Jews who believe that either.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(Galatians 3:25-27)

add:

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:15-17)

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Jesus's brother James did not believe him to be the Messiah

James was a major leader for the growth of a Church, but the beliefs of that Church are different than the beliefs you hold.

The Nazarene Jew belief (Different than the Church of Nazaraene) believe that Jesus was a man (not clear if he was a prophet) and after Jesus/Yeshu died, "Nazarenes" after Jesus' hometown of Nazareth, became his followers.

Jesus' brother James, was head of the Nazarenes in Jerusalem until he was also executed by the Romans. The Nazarenes observed Jewish laws. The Romans killed many Nazarenes, for being observant Jews, during the Jewish revolt. Jews believe Jesus was a founder of a religious movement, or more specifically of the sect of the Nazarenes within Judaism.

Jesus/Yeshu own brother didnt believe he was the Messiah

According to Nazarene Jews, Jesus was a Jewish man who was executed and later given divine status by the Christian church, there is a distinction.

(Excerpts)

After the miraculous conception of Jesus, Mary and Joseph had other children as well. The gospels report that Jesus had at least four brothers and some sisters: “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us?” (Matthew 13:55, also Mark 6:3). And the gospels also record, that while Jesus was alive, his brothers did not believe in Him: “For even his own brothers did not believe in him” (John 7:5). The Scriptures do not sugarcoat this. The lack of belief by James and the other brothers is corroborated by the absolute silence about them in the gospels. None of the accounts of Jesus’ ministry mentions them in any role.

However, after the resurrection, in the earliest years of Christianity, James, the brother of Jesus, became a significant player in the movement. In Galatians 1:19, Paul explicitly identified him as one of the only two individuals he met with during his 37 AD trip to Jerusalem : “I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother.” So, there cannot be any doubt that James, [42] Jesus’ brother, had within four years of the resurrection not only converted to Christianity; he had become a recognized leader in the early church.

All in all, it is a well founded conclusion that James, the brother of Jesus – like Paul – made a remarkable conversion from a non-believer during the lifetime of Jesus to a leader in the earliest years of the Christian movement and was ultimately stoned for his faith. Although the personal appearance of the risen Jesus to His brother James is reported only once in the New Testament, this reported encounter is part of the powerful early resurrection creed dated back to only a few years after the resurrection. And one can wonder: What could have ever happened to James that could have converted him to a believer apart from the appearance of the resurrected Christ? James knew Jesus while He was alive and certainly knew about His teachings and even Jesus’ miracles. None of this, however, convinced him, so what could the apostles have said to convince this man? Logically, only a personal encounter with Jesus, as mentioned by Paul, would explain his 180 degree change in beliefs and actions.

Windmill Ministries - Christian Apologetics