ST Matthews Church

[Marie]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

God forbids graven images for the purposes of idolatry and surely you would agree that the worship of Jesus Christ Son of God is not idolatry. Elsewhere in scipture God most certainly approves of the use of images and even commands the Isrealites to make them.

Ex. 25:18-19 - The Lord said make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end...

Ex. 26:1 - You shall make the tabernacle with ... cherubim skillfully worked.

Num. 21:8-9 - The Lord said to Moses, `Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.' So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole.

1 Kgs. 6:23, 27-29 - He made two cherubim of olivewood, each ten cubits high. . . . He put the cherubim in the innermost part of the Temple . . . And he overlaid the cherubim with gold. He carved all the walls of the Temple round about with carved figures of cherubim and palm trees and open flowers.

As you probably know, cherubim are things of heaven, as is Christ. Might I suggest you re-think your own aptitude regarding the understanding of scripture?

I think the difference Is Angels or snakes are not things of adoration in the first place (like God and were expressly told NOT to worship Angels) plus God told them to do it. Granted Angels are in heaven, and that was a clever reply. The problem is scripture says what it says, and in more than one place (That’s important). The only other alternative, is to say that doesn’t apply because it’s in the old covenant or wasn’t written directly to us, but that doesn’t work either as
1. The moral law is brought over into the New Testament at least 9 out of 10 are (Except for the Sabbath).
2. Hermeneutically if the first didn’t apply, than you would have to see if the principle applies to today and it does.

I appreciate the thought you gave your reply, but I have to stick with my first thought.
Id also like to make the case for the Holiness of God. Although one of Gods attributes is love, so is Wrath and being just. We have lost our sense of who God really is and having a reverent fear of God. Isaiah's response to God was Woe is me; I come from a people of unclean lips!

We can side tract the intent of the original Posters question, but my overall point was that there might be wiser, better way/organization to support rather than a solicitation from a purchased mailing list. I have a Catholic friend that got the same junk mail.

[Radiant1 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Marie

I appreciate the thought you gave your reply, but I have to stick with my first thought.

You're free to do so, but if I were you I'd be careful about calling anyone "inept". Just sayin'.

[vbailey]

I would not send my money to anyone unless I knew %100 what it would be used for.......there are plenty of local charities in need of donations.....what about your church? What burdens your heart? Ask yourself....sharing the gospel is my big thing, Out reach locally and Missions to other countries. Pray about it before you just give away your money.

[libby]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

What?

I'm cheering for you. I'm not very good with the (are they called?) emoticons?
I thought that's what it meant, so forgive me if I messed up.

[Radiant1 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by libby

I'm cheering for you. I'm not very good with the (are they called?) emoticons?
I thought that's what it meant, so forgive me if I messed up.

Oh ok, no problem, and thanks!

[Dougstermd (Premo)]

Originally Posted by vbailey

I would not send my money to anyone unless I knew %100 what it would be used for.......there are plenty of local charities in need of donations.....what about your church? What burdens your heart? Ask yourself....sharing the gospel is my big thing, Out reach locally and Missions to other countries. Pray about it before you just give away your money.

I do not typically give away money anyway. I like to give by volunteering my time. I just thought it was a pretty crappy thing for that "CHURCH" to send anything like that out as a mass mailer

[libby]

Originally Posted by Marie

You missread its heaven above, or earth beneath (Hell)

Deuteronomy 5:8
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

As I read Deuteronomy, it says, "in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth.".
Now, I'm just curious...where is there anything that leads you to believe that God is instructing them to avoid making images of beings in Heaven or Hell, as opposed to anything on the earth, in the sky or in the waters, as the Bible quite categorically says?
The golden calf would not fall into the category of forbidden images, then, right? It was, after all, like the images of your family, on the earth. It is not an image from Heaven or Hell. In addition, according the you, the prohibition is does not apply to images "that are not things of adoration in the first place." A calf is not a thing of adoration in the first place.
Soooo, what am I missing?

[clevalley (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Marie

You missread its heaven above, or earth beneath (Hell)

Deuteronomy 5:8
Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:

Exodus 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

Originally Posted by libby

As I read Deuteronomy, it says, "in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth.".
Now, I'm just curious...where is there anything that leads you to believe that God is instructing them to avoid making images of beings in Heaven or Hell, as opposed to anything on the earth, in the sky or in the waters, as the Bible quite categorically says?
The golden calf would not fall into the category of forbidden images, then, right? It was, after all, like the images of your family, on the earth. It is not an image from Heaven or Hell. In addition, according the you, the prohibition is does not apply to images "that are not things of adoration in the first place." A calf is not a thing of adoration in the first place.
Soooo, what am I missing?

You two need to STFU and start a new thread, Dougster asked a legitimate question; either give him an answer or go COAD...

Dougster - if it was me, and I was affiliated with the church I would give what you think you can give. Or call an attending member of the church you know and ask.

If I was not affiliated with them, I would not give...

[vbailey]

Originally Posted by Dougstermd

I do not typically give away money anyway. I like to give by volunteering my time. I just thought it was a pretty crappy thing for that "CHURCH" to send anything like that out as a mass mailer

Not many people like to give of their time. Some times it is good to give money so others can help, if you don't have the time to give of yourself. It depends on the situtation! I have done both when it is something I really have a heart for....God bless the people who give their time and put their heart into giving.

[libby]

Originally Posted by clevalley

You two need to STFU and start a new thread, Dougster asked a legitimate question; either give him an answer or go COAD...

Dougster - if it was me, and I was affiliated with the church I would give what you think you can give. Or call an attending member of the church you know and ask.

If I was not affiliated with them, I would not give...

To say STFU before you even offer a constructive reminder, now that is going after a gnat with a sledgehammer.
I'll put my post on a new thread. Thank you for your charitable contribution to the maintainance of the topic.