Standing up for our Faith

[citizen_fear (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

He's God, he's his own son as well as father and God himself.

You mean he is everything,..Think I would go crazy trying to understand or figure it out.....

[PsyOps]

Originally Posted by citizen_fear

No debate. So they are one in the same but Jesus is the son of God? So when Jesus questions God, he is talking to himself in the third person? I am trying to understand.

I sort of think about it this way... An atom is made up of 3 parts: electrons neutrons and protons. Each part has it's equal purpose. I happen to think the terminology Father, Son, and Holy Ghost was used to help us understand each part’s purpose rather than some sort of hierarchy (one more powerful than the other). God (a spiritual being) made man (a physical being). He knows we live in the physical and needed a physical depiction of Him to put his plan for salvation into motion. Of course even there we have a hard time understanding it.

[twinoaks207 (Premo)]

Food for thought:

1. Jesus was a teacher who taught in parables (look not at the exact words but at the "moral of the story").
2. The bible (or other holy book) is oral tradition written down. Every society throughout time has had an "oral tradition" that was used to teach and communicate the society's rules and history. As it was "oral" it changed a bit with each person telling it. Early books were handwritten individually which meant that there may have been changes with each "writer". They were written in different languages and then translated -- again, changes with each translation.
3. All civilized groups need a method of communicating group "rules" and "words to live by".
4. "Political" groups in power will manipulate spoken and written word to make it conform to what they see is the "need".

Isn't all of this just a way of helping us learn how to live with each other in love and harmony and how to not hurt each other? Arguing over whose "way" is "right" has only caused much pain and suffering over the centuries and shows no sign of stopping. All we were meant to learn is love. Everything good flows from that and everything bad comes from when we don't practice love. God's Word is simple: love.

[toppick08 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by twinoaks207

Food for thought:

1. Jesus was a teacher who taught in parables (look not at the exact words but at the "moral of the story").
2. The bible (or other holy book) is oral tradition written down. Every society throughout time has had an "oral tradition" that was used to teach and communicate the society's rules and history. As it was "oral" it changed a bit with each person telling it. Early books were handwritten individually which meant that there may have been changes with each "writer". They were written in different languages and then translated -- again, changes with each translation.
3. All civilized groups need a method of communicating group "rules" and "words to live by".
4. "Political" groups in power will manipulate spoken and written word to make it conform to what they see is the "need".

Isn't all of this just a way of helping us learn how to live with each other in love and harmony and how to not hurt each other? Arguing over whose "way" is "right" has only caused much pain and suffering over the centuries and shows no sign of stopping. All we were meant to learn is love. Everything good flows from that and everything bad comes from when we don't practice love. God's Word is simple: love.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by libby

So we do not have free will? This will surely open another can of worms, but how do you reconcile free will with predestination?
If God has determined your path, and you cannot lose it, then He has also determined the path for the damned. God does not will that anyone perish. Can you please explain this theology?

How can you keep confusing the 2???
Libby, why do you keep bringing this up after I've explained it to you many times before? Your church teaches salvation by working for it and working to keep it. Christianity doesn't.
First off, God knows everything! Psalm 94 v11, Psalm 139 v4 & John 16 v30. He knew who would CHOOSE to be saved and who wouldn't before anything was ever created. To those who would choose salvation, He coordinater their lives so that nothing would happen to prevent it. To those who would REFUSE salvation, He didn't have to, even though some things in their lives are.
Predestination simply means that God used whatever was going to happen in my life to work for the benefit of His plan. It doesn't mean that I am forced to do anything. I can still do what I want. Predestination is not an evil form of mind control. The difference, now, is that I WANT to do things that please Him. This is called a change of heart. I used to want to be the drunken life of the party and I was for 17 years. Now I've grown out of it because I'm saved.
It's like me dating a bunch of women and having the time of my life while single. Then I find one who I want to settle down with and so I give up my entire "playboy" lifestyle for her. That's called committment but it's a choice I made out of love. No one forced me.

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

But Jesus was God, he has that power to condemn, where does your power come from?

His words.

Originally Posted by citizen_fear

Jesus is not God......He is the son of God, seated at the right hand of the father.

Extremely wrong! He is 100% God and 100% man. He had 2 natures just as we all do. One is human and one is Divine (Our other nature is spiritual too but not Divine). This is why He could speak of God, on one hand, as His equal and, on the other hand, as His superior.

Originally Posted by twinoaks207

Food for thought:[*]The bible (or other holy book) is oral tradition written down.
As it was "oral" it changed a bit with each person telling it. Early books were handwritten individually which meant that there may have been changes with each "writer". They were written in different languages and then translated -- again, changes with each translation.
Arguing over whose "way" is "right" has only caused much pain and suffering over the centuries and shows no sign of stopping. God's Word is simple: love.

The Bible is God's Word's spoken to men who wrote it down for later generations to follow. Very little has changed from the original writings, otherwise we'd have NO basis for absolute truth. God is too powerful to let His words change meaning regardless of time and regardless of language differences. The dead sea scrolls proved that and so do the almost 6,000 copies of the Scriptures. No other book in all of humanity can compare to or disprove the Bible.
As long as the Devil has a say on this earth, there will be counterfit gospels and teachings. There is only one truth and one God. We HAVE to argue over "whose way is right" or you people will (already have) fall for any teaching that comes down the pike.

[pixiegirl]

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

I see what you're saying but how is that any different than what Jesus said?
"telling someone they're going to hell if they don't believe" is exactly what He did at times and is the truth. It's somewhat harsh but it's still the truth. Why would anyone not use that if it applies? I would, if the "love & forgiveness" method didn't work. He made it clear that unbelievers will not enter the kingdom of Heaven and told them lots about hell. John 8 from verse 12 to the end is one example.
I know a few people that have often told me that they are scared to death of the thought of going to hell. They don't talk much about God's love (that I conveyed to them) so, if being scared of hell helps them come to Christ, I'm all for it. I don't know where people get the notion that Christians always have to be soft and passive. When Jesus returns, we will all see a side of Him that we've never seen and it won't be pretty this time.
And I understand about the rich young ruler but he walked away, not Jesus. If someone walks away from me in a conversation or on this forum, I don't go chasing him either but I will tell people what awaits them (unlike Oprah's lie about "many ways to Heaven").

I didn't get any further than this before I had to interject.... News Flash.... You're not Jesus dude so why the hell would you even try to preach like him or think that you have the authority to tell people they're going to hell? PEOPLE are what turn other people away from belief of that I am sure. Why the hell anyone wants to be part of some culture that you can never be good enough for is beyond me. And before you point fingers and try to accuse me of being a hell bound heathen let me say that I absolutely believe in God and have plenty of faith. If at any time anyone wants to talk to me about it I talk to them openly and from the heart, my heart; not some book of half fairy tales and years of what God's other followers have shoved down my throat.

[twinoaks207 (Premo)]

Originally Posted by pixiegirl

I didn't get any further than this before I had to interject.... News Flash.... You're not Jesus dude so why the hell would you even try to preach like him or think that you have the authority to tell people they're going to hell? PEOPLE are what turn other people away from belief of that I am sure. Why the hell anyone wants to be part of some culture that you can never be good enough for is beyond me. And before you point fingers and try to accuse me of being a hell bound heathen let me say that I absolutely believe in God and have plenty of faith. If at any time anyone wants to talk to me about it I talk to them openly and from the heart, my heart; not some book of half fairy tales and years of what God's other followers have shoved down my throat.

YOU see! Just remember that "there are none so blind as those who will not see"...

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by pixiegirl

I didn't get any further than this before I had to interject.... News Flash.... You're not Jesus dude so why the hell would you even try to preach like him or think that you have the authority to tell people they're going to hell? PEOPLE are what turn other people away from belief of that I am sure. Why the hell anyone wants to be part of some culture that you can never be good enough for is beyond me. And before you point fingers and try to accuse me of being a hell bound heathen let me say that I absolutely believe in God and have plenty of faith. If at any time anyone wants to talk to me about it I talk to them openly and from the heart, my heart; not some book of half fairy tales and years of what God's other followers have shoved down my throat.

Hey Pixie! How long you been this upset? Don't let Oprah deceive you with her many ways to Heaven; there's only one way according to the "book of fairy tales" and that's what I'm speaking about.
2A said it very well: "no one was ever argued into believing". I'm not forcing anyone into believing but I will present the truth passionately my dear lady because it IS a matter of life & death.
Of course I'm not Jesus; never was, never will be but He did leave me (and others) here to speak the good news until He gets back. He even told me that I will do more things than He did. John 14 v12.
Matthew 16 v19 and 18 v18-19 gives me the right to "declare" whether someone has the right path to Heaven or not. This also means that we can say, with godly authority, the condition of a person's heart by what they believe.
So, let's "talk from your heart".
Tell me, what is your faith based on if not the "book of fairy tales"??
Explain to me (please), in a detailed description, who your God is, when you became saved and how you'll get to Heaven. I'm being very serious here. I'm not saying anything against what you believe (at this point) so be honest. What concerns me is that you said: "not some book of half fairy tales and years of what God's other followers have shoved down my throat".
This is what I'd ask anyone who claims to "absolutely believe in God and have plenty of faith".
Matthew 7 v21-23.

[pixiegirl]

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

Hey Pixie! How long you been this upset? Don't let Oprah deceive you with her many ways to Heaven; there's only one way according to the "book of fairy tales" and that's what I'm speaking about.
2A said it very well: "no one was ever argued into believing". I'm not forcing anyone into believing but I will present the truth passionately my dear lady because it IS a matter of life & death.
Of course I'm not Jesus; never was, never will be but He did leave me (and others) here to speak the good news until He gets back. He even told me that I will do more things than He did. John 14 v12.
Matthew 16 v19 and 18 v18-19 gives me the right to "declare" whether someone has the right path to Heaven or not. This also means that we can say, with godly authority, the condition of a person's heart by what they believe.
So, let's "talk from your heart".
Tell me, what is your faith based on if not the "book of fairy tales"??
Explain to me (please), in a detailed description, who your God is, when you became saved and how you'll get to Heaven. I'm being very serious here. I'm not saying anything against what you believe (at this point) so be honest. What concerns me is that you said: "not some book of half fairy tales and years of what God's other followers have shoved down my throat".
This is what I'd ask anyone who claims to "absolutely believe in God and have plenty of faith".
Matthew 7 v21-23.

I'm not angry at all dude, quite the contrary. I'm secure enough in myself and my own personal faith that I don't have to damn others that don't see things the way I do. Good luck with your quest to change the world, it's not going to happen and you'll probably do more harm than good. I've never watched Oprah by the way.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by pixiegirl

I'm not angry at all dude, quite the contrary. I'm secure enough in myself and my own personal faith that I don't have to damn others that don't see things the way I do. Good luck with your quest to change the world, it's not going to happen and you'll probably do more harm than good. I've never watched Oprah by the way.

Thanks for answering all my questions with one reply.