Morals are natural

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by OoberBoober

From another article on the same subject...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sc...ewanted=1&_r=2

Jumping in water to save one of your own, Not getting food because it causes harm to others... Those are morals.

Some have falsely argued only Religious people have morals. That Atheists only obey societal standards because they are selfish and dont want to go to jail (never mind that theists only reason for obeying standards is due to hell).

Since Apes, Monkeys and Dolphins have also been observed to display morals, you gotta wonder what religion they follow.

[Im_Me]

Originally Posted by OoberBoober

From another article on the same subject...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sc...ewanted=1&_r=2

Jumping in water to save one of your own, Not getting food because it causes harm to others... Those are morals.

Gosh. Subjecting a monkey to a condition where, for several days, he can only be fed if he shocks another makes me wonder if the scientist has any morals.

P. S. to Knucklesack: I'm curious why this is in the religion forum. Religion and morals are not the same. (Though the subject is pretty interesting.) You must have been answering as I was typing...But I stand by my opinion that morals and religion are not the same.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Some have falsely argued only Religious people have morals. That Atheists only obey societal standards because they are selfish and dont want to go to jail (never mind that theists only reason for obeying standards is due to hell).

Since Apes, Monkeys and Dolphins have also been observed to display morals, you gotta wonder what religion they follow.

I think the argument is generally that religion provides a moral standard that is unchanging. The moral standards are, well, standard.

The basis for each atheist's morals is whatever that particular atheist feels is correct at the moment, and is variable based on that atheist's mood, life experience, etc., etc. An atheist's moral standard is, well, not a standard at all over time.

This is where the phrase moral relativity comes in to play. What may be okay in one instance is not okay in another, or when compared to what could be worse.

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Im_Me

Gosh. Subjecting a monkey to a condition where, for several days, he can only be fed if he shocks another makes me wonder if the scientist has any morals.

P. S. to Knucklesack: I'm curious why this is in the religion forum. Religion and morals are not the same. (Though the subject is pretty interesting.) You must have been answering as I was typing...But I stand by my opinion that morals and religion are not the same.

You and I realize that Religion and Morals are not the same.

Others on here (This_Misrepresentation for instance) claim otherwise

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

Some have falsely argued only Religious people have morals. That Atheists only obey societal standards because they are selfish and dont want to go to jail (never mind that theists only reason for obeying standards is due to hell).

Since Apes, Monkeys and Dolphins have also been observed to display morals, you gotta wonder what religion they follow.

I've always argued that all people have morals, but my argument stems from whence do the morals come. It really has nothing to do with religion per se, but rather the inherent human knowledge of goodness, truth, beauty, justice, etc., which could not have evolved...but, then again, maybe they did. I'll be keeping a close eye on these studies. Fascinating stuff.

[Im_Me]

Originally Posted by Nucklesack

You and I realize that Religion and Morals are not the same.

Others on here (This_Misrepresentation for instance) claim otherwise

Amusing though you two may be, I think we all realize that you and This_person are not a "match made in Heaven". Maybe you can both let it go and stop chasing each other around the forums to fight over every thing. (that's just my opinon, though. If you guys feel the need to fight to the internet death then PARTY ON!)

[pixiegirl]

Originally Posted by OoberBoober

From another article on the same subject...



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/sc...ewanted=1&_r=2

Jumping in water to save one of your own, Not getting food because it causes harm to others... Those are morals.

No, those are feelings. Having to sacrifice oneself to save another that you can not save is in not a moral choice and could actually be looked upon as the opposite (not taking ones own life). The later could be looked at as a moral if the monkey was causing direct harm to another in order to get food but since that's not the case it's only empathy in not wanting to hurt another.

[This_person]

Originally Posted by Im_Me

Amusing though you two may be, I think we all realize that you and This_person are not a "match made in Heaven". Maybe you can both let it go and stop chasing each other around the forums to fight over every thing. (that's just my opinon, though. If you guys feel the need to fight to the internet death then PARTY ON!)

I have no need to respond to his unfounded and inaccurate personal attacks. I'll let people read my substantive posts on the subjects and make up their own minds.

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Im_Me

Amusing though you two may be, I think we all realize that you and This_person are not a "match made in Heaven". Maybe you can both let it go and stop chasing each other around the forums to fight over every thing. (that's just my opinon, though. If you guys feel the need to fight to the internet death then PARTY ON!)

I dont respond to him very often any more, though i do notice he posts in my threads. Maybe you should take that up with him?

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I've always argued that all people have morals, but my argument stems from whence do the morals come. It really has nothing to do with religion per se, but rather the inherent human knowledge of goodness, truth, beauty, justice, etc., which could not have evolved...but, then again, maybe they did. I'll be keeping a close eye on these studies. Fascinating stuff.

I know, and thats why i didnt throw a blanket statement that all theists believe the same as the misguided.