Hawking

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

OK - but theories in science are subject to ever changing ideas and discoveries.

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

[Ignatiuslives]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

well said.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

Exactly. This is what science does. Lets take evolution for instance.

Evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts.

Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome.

OK- but, when the theories are believed as "facts" and taught for many years only to be revised and changed because the original "facts" had been based on prior theories, inconclusive evidence and incomplete information - then what? More theories that will be changed at a later date?

As mentioned, no point in trying to solve this issue on this thread. Believe as you wish for right now - until that belief changes in the future because "science" found out something different.
Going back to my "Let's learn about Islam" discussions.

[thatguy]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

OK- but, when the theories are believed as "facts" and taught for many years only to be revised and changed because the original "facts" had been based on prior theories, inconclusive evidence and incomplete information - then what? More theories that will be changed at a later date?

As mentioned, no point in trying to solve this issue on this thread. Believe as you wish for right now - until that belief changes in the future because "science" found out something different.
Going back to my "Let's learn about Islam" discussions.

you obviously have a lack of understanding regarding facts and theories.

and you are welcome to get back to you HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR threads, just like WJWD

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by thatguy

you obviously have a lack of understanding regarding facts and theories.

and you are welcome to get back to you HATE YOUR NEIGHBOR threads, just like WJWD

UM... I see you have no explanation for how life began either. No facts - just theories, eh.

BTW: Jesus wants Muslims to know what True Peace and Life is all about rather than believing that chanting death to America and Israel and committing suicide bombings gets them into heaven where wide-eyed voluptuous women await. Just sayin...

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

Here we go again. You must be joking. You do I am sure know that evolution; the gradual changing of organisms to adapt to changing environments, actuallly happens and can easily be demonstrated. Evolution is not only a theory, but is a fact. It began life as a theory in 1859 when Darwin published the Origin of Species.

Long since the massive weight of evidence has taken it from theory to fact - except maybe in backwoods environments. It is way too tedious to have to go further in explaining this to wilfully ignorant folks who prefer to adopt strange and archaic views of the world. So odd that these people predominantly reside in an advanced nation.

Take a look at the discoveries of a hundred and fifty years ago and pray you are not struck down for eating of the tree of knowledge.

Then we need to stop calling it “The Theory of Evolution”. I’ve never once contended that evolution doesn’t exist. Certain aspects of evolution can certainly be proven as fact; but it's pure speculation that man started as some sort of fish that made it to land that became a reptile that became an ape-like species that split off the apes and humans. And the big hole is evolution certainly doesn’t explain how life came to be.

I am not saying it didn’t happen this way; I’m simply saying that none of it proves the non-existence of God, and to use it to that effect is a lost argument. When you try to throw scientific theories out there to disprove the existence of God I have only one choice but to come back and say that the only reason evolution exists is because you believe it does. The only reason black holes exists if because you have faith that it’s true. You can’t prove it as absolute, you can’t show it to me, you can only assert through certain studies and math that these things occur.

You are demanding me to take a look at 100 – 150 years of study yet you refuse to accept thousands of years of study and belief in a God as evidence. Your evidence pales in comparison IMHO.

No, I’m not joking.

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Then we need to stop calling it “The Theory of Evolution”. I’ve never once contended that evolution doesn’t exist. Certain aspects of evolution can certainly be proven as fact; but it's pure speculation that man started as some sort of fish that made it to land that became a reptile that became an ape-like species that split off the apes and humans. And the big hole is evolution certainly doesn’t explain how life came to be.

I am not saying it didn’t happen this way; I’m simply saying that none of it proves the non-existence of God, and to use it to that effect is a lost argument. When you try to throw scientific theories out there to disprove the existence of God I have only one choice but to come back and say that the only reason evolution exists is because you believe it does. The only reason black holes exists if because you have faith that it’s true. You can’t prove it as absolute, you can’t show it to me, you can only assert through certain studies and math that these things occur.

You are demanding me to take a look at 100 – 150 years of study yet you refuse to accept thousands of years of study and belief in a God as evidence. Your evidence pales in comparison IMHO.

No, I’m not joking.

I had a long, drawn-out reply, but it would again prove to be futile as I'm constantly repeating myself to these strawman arguments of yours, so just the talking points:

1. Evolution is a theory and a fact.
2. It doesn't matter if anyone "believes" in it, it's not a belief. It stands or falls on the facts that support it.
3. Evolution has nothing to do with how life started, nor does it claim to; that's called abiogenesis.
4. Evolution has never claimed to prove that a god or gods don't exist. Why would it?
5. People have believed in gods for TENS of thousands of years, not merely thousands

[Ignatiuslives]

I don't think we have been using evolution to prove that god doesn't exist. Last time I checked, scientific theory is only one step under being a law. Either way, it isn't exactly pure speculation. Even if there were no dark areas in evolution it still could not be used as proof that god doesn't exist.


And you refuse to believe other religions that have even more "thousands of years of study and belief."

I don't think "belief", no matter for how long, makes anything right. That's why there is an empirical system. Studying something that can, by its nature, provide no empirical evidence is of no value either.

The furthest we could ever get is making any god other than a deistic god unreasonable.

And for starman, I thought jesus died a few hundred years before islam appeared? Has he been talking to you?

[Ignatiuslives]

hahaha, wxtornado. we really must coordinate these responses. this is becoming redundant.

[wxtornado]

Originally Posted by Ignatiuslives

hahaha, wxtornado. we really must coordinate these responses. this is becoming redundant.

Lol, and even redundancy won't matter - it's futile I tell you!