Hawking

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Since the two paradigms are not mutually exclusive, yet are of utmost importance to life as we know it - I am led to believe that they are both true, and evolution is merely the procedure of God's handiwork.

If you really believe in God as being the Supreme Creator, you would be able to know that He could create this world as outlined in the Genesis Account, literally 6 days of Creation. The separation period from one day to the next, Evening to Morning, negates the theory that evolution took place over several million years.

What may seem supernatural to mankind is literally natural to God and within His scope and ability of producing Creation as described in the Book of Genesis.

The Genesis Account (New Int'l Version)

Genesis 1, The Beginning:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by wxtornado

Because this is you:

You: Evolution can't disprove God.
Atheists: Which God?
You: Evolution doesn't disprove God.
Atheists: That's right, that's not what evolution is about.
You: Stop trying to disprove God with evolution. You can't.
Atheists: Yeah, no kidding. How do you prove something you don't believe in anyway?
You: You think you've disproven God, but you haven't.

on and on and on, forever and ever, amen. That is what trolling is, in case you didn't know.

Do yourself a favor and go back to post #52 on page 6 and read who started the discussion about evolution, what my response was, then what your response was. All I stated – in reply to Ignatiuslives – was evolution is a theory. That was it. You decided to jump in there and take what I posted completely out of context as if I was challenging the validity of evolution. You completely missed the point. All sorts of “scientific theories” have been used in this forum to disprove the existence of God. You’re at the front of the line in this effort. My only point – as I attempt to state it again – is when it comes to things not completely proven (theories), it boils down to what you believe as the truth. I’m not picking and choosing the truth any more than you are.

Here is the train of thought using your train of dialectics:

Atheist: What about Genesis 1:1
Me: I think it’s a parable of God’s creation
Atheist: What about evolution
Me: I believe evolution, to a certain degree happened and is happening
Atheist: Then Genesis is a lie therefore God doesn’t exist

Now who’s the troll in this dialog?

Evolution is commonly used as a means to prove Genesis is wrong, therefore it’s a lie, therefore God doesn’t exist. Please don’t imply I just crawled out from under a rock yesterday. I’ve been through these discussions enough to know your purpose here and you’re not fooling anyone. But responding to Ignatiuslives’ post was simply stating a point. It was you that decided to go on and on about evolution while I posted nothing until post #96 where I was basically agreeing with you.

Until now I’ve not once read where you’ve stated that evolution does not prove there is no God. So I’ll right out and ask you… do you believe evolution is one of those scientific theories that provides you enough evidence to convince you God doesn’t exist?

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

If you really believe in God as being the Supreme Creator, you would be able to know that He could create this world as outlined in the Genesis Account, literally 6 days of Creation.

I didn't say He "couldn't"


I just don't think that He did.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

The separation period from one day to the next, Evening to Morning, negates the theory that evolution took place over several million years.

You're presuming that the word "day" is not used as a metaphor for "indefinite period of time", where I am presuming that it is.

I've already stated that I don't think the creation story is a literal account of what happened. So throwing scripture at me which points out "evening to morning" isn't really going to convince me of anything, because I don't believe it was a literal evening to a literal morning.


All evidence points to the universe being 15 billion(ish) years old, and all evidence points to evolution on planet earth as a reality with the current result of humans, koala bears and Saguaro cacti.



I also find it hard to believe that God would plant all this evidence of fossils, bones, etc. just to fake us out.

And I don't believe the devil did it either.

[Nucklesack]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

It's a question that has been asked over and over in here. It's an attempt to nitpick things in order to say "You see, the bible is full of falacies and contradictions. How could God - being perfect - possibly exist?"

No its not, its an exmple of the fallacies of a Man written Bible.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

This serve two purposes: 1) You think you have proven that God doesn't exist and 2) You feel better about yourself for not being sucked into the lie.

While this maybe true for some, for others, this has nothign to do with Proving God doesnt exist. Cant prove a negative. This only calls into question the validity of the Bible

Originally Posted by PsyOps

My counter question is: How do you know what to believe in science and what not to believe, since they are constantly changing their theories as to what's going on in our universe? What is the truth?

The constant search for information, and the testing of the Scientific method, strengthens the validity of Science.

The Bible, the story in/of the Bible, and the God told in the Bible has never changed, even when new information that refutes an assertion in the Bible has been revealed.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Well, it appears that the truth is what you believe it to be.

Originally Posted by PsyOps

Read Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Isn't that all we really need to know as far as God's roll in this? Regardless of whether you believe the literal interpretation or something different, it all revolves back to this verse.

But that isnt where it stops is it?

And if Gen1:1 is important enough to know, so are all the other works attributed to God.

Just because they may not fit what you selectively believe in the Bible doesnt make their value any less than Gen1:1

[PsyOps (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

If you really believe in God as being the Supreme Creator, you would be able to know that He could create this world as outlined in the Genesis Account, literally 6 days of Creation. The separation period from one day to the next, Evening to Morning, negates the theory that evolution took place over several million years.

I don't believe it necessarily does on two possibilities:

1) The period of time "evening and morning" took place could have been hugely different than how it occurs today.

2) This could be an analogous "evening and morning" in terms of time as compared to eternity.

I'm just having a hard time believing God would alter His laws of nature for the sake of expediency. Either way, there is nothing that convinces me that God didn't create our universe and the life in it regardless of how we view the creation story.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Toxick

I didn't say He "couldn't"


I just don't think that He did.





You're presuming that the word "day" is not used as a metaphor for "indefinite period of time", where I am presuming that it is.

I've already stated that I don't think the creation story is a literal account of what happened. So throwing scripture at me which points out "evening to morning" isn't really going to convince me of anything, because I don't believe it was a literal evening to a literal morning.


All evidence points to the universe being 15 billion(ish) years old, and all evidence points to evolution on planet earth as a reality with the current result of humans, koala bears and Saguaro cacti.



I also find it hard to believe that God would plant all this evidence of fossils, bones, etc. just to fake us out.

And I don't believe the devil did it either.

OK - but the God I believe in is not as limited, confined and restricted as the one you believe in. The scientific "evidence" that you accept is still theory in relation to actual and true geological timelines. Even "carbon dating" is based on a "best guess" scenario and cannot be proven to be factual since scientists keep changing the age of this earth by various "billions of years" whenever a new "discovery" is brought up for funding.

With that, my friend, let's agree to disagree on this issue since There Is Only One Truth.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by PsyOps

...I'm just having a hard time believing God would alter His laws of nature for the sake of expediency. Either way, there is nothing that convinces me that God didn't create our universe and the life in it regardless of how we view the creation story.

God is not restricted to "man's laws of nature" - He created nature! God is also not bound to the mortal/physical concepts of being that a person understands with the limitations of the mind of mortal man.

God's presence and abilities transcend anything we can even begin to fathom - that is why I believe the literal six days of Creation as written in the Genesis Account. Actually, God could have created everything in one day, had He chosen to do so, but God has created an order of life that affects nature on earth and the universe as He willed it to be.

The God I believe in is not limited to the restrictions as explained by mortal man.

As mentioned to Toxic, herein you and I shall also need to agree to disagree since There Is Only One Truth.

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

OK - but the God I believe in is not as limited, confined and restricted as the one you believe in.

Dude, that's twice now.

You are putting words into my mouth. I never mentioned or implied any "limitations".




If you keep doing that, you are going to really piss me off.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Dude, that's twice now.

You are putting words into my mouth. I never mentioned or implied any "limitations".


If you keep doing that, you are going to really piss me off.

Relax, Toxick, take a deep breath and calm down.

OK - Let's try this:

The God you believe in probably didn't create the universe, earth and all life within the literal 6 days of Creation as outlined in the Genesis Account.

The God I believe in Did!.

Fair' nuff?

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Fair' nuff?

I suppose... although I'm not thrilled with the implication that "The God I believe in", and "the God you believe in" are not one in the same.