the real truth of our Christian heritage

[foodcritic]

John Adams Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Second President of the United States

[I]t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, 1854), Vol. IX, p. 401, to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.)

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown, and Co. 1854), Vol. IX, p. 229, October 11, 1798.)

The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If "Thou shalt not covet," and "Thou shalt not steal," were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free.

(Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1851), Vol. VI, p. 9.)

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

1) quote our founding fathers all you want. It doesn't matter what they said rather what they wrote, particularly in our laws.

2) John Adams wasn't a Christian; so even if he'd wanted a more religiously based nation; it wouldn't have been your religion.

3) Ever heard of the "Alien and Sedition Acts" signed by President Adams? I don't think he's the best choice here...

4) you should have read my response to you on the other thread. Did you miss it?

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by UNA

Wirelessly posted

1) quote our founding fathers all you want. It doesn't matter what they said rather what they wrote, particularly in our laws.

2) John Adams wasn't a Christian; so even if he'd wanted a more religiously based nation; it wouldn't have been your religion.

3) Ever heard of the "Alien and Sedition Acts" signed by President Adams? I don't think he's the best choice here...

4) you should have read my response to you on the other thread. Did you miss it?

John Adams

SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; JUDGE; DIPLOMAT; ONE OF TWO SIGNERS OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS; SECOND PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1

1.Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.(Return)

[Sonsie]

Originally Posted by foodcritic

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion.

This has proved it's self true more and more every year... crime, unwed mothers, and general sloth. The takers vote themselves more taxpayer money every cycle.

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by Sonsie

This has proved it's self true more and more every year... crime, unwed mothers, and general sloth. The takers vote themselves more taxpayer money every cycle.

Your very right. There has been a systamatic attempt to remove God from the public square. And we wonder why. Many of these things can directly be associated with the removal of God from the publik skools.

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by foodcritic

1.Thomas Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (Washington D. C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIII, p. 292-294. In a letter from John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28, 1813.(Return)

my fault! John Adams was Unitarianism. My mistake. It was Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and (I think) James Madison who were the non-Christians. I was thinking Adams was on that list.

Care to address the other points I made though?

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by UNA

Wirelessly posted
my fault! John Adams was Unitarianism. My mistake. It was Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and (I think) James Madison who were the non-Christians. I was thinking Adams was on that list.

Care to address the other points I made though?

No. Our kids are really be indoctrinated by the secularists.

Madison even desired that all public officials - including Bradford - would declare openly and publicly their Christian beliefs and testimony:

I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way. [2]

Second, Madison was a member of the committee that authored the 1776 Virginia Bill of Rights and approved of its clause declaring that:

It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other. [3] (emphasis added)

[2] Letter of Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773), in 1 James Madison, The Papers of James Madison 66 (William T. Hutchinson ed., Illinois: University of Chicago Press 1962).

[3] The Proceedings of the Convention of Delegates, Held at the Capitol in the City of Williamsburg, in the Colony of Virginia, on Monday the 6th of May, 1776, 103 (Williamsburg: Alexander Purdie 1776) (Madison on the Committee on May 16, 1776; the "Declaration of Rights" passed June 12, 1776).

[UNA]

Wirelessly posted

Originally Posted by foodcritic

No. Our kids are really be indoctrinated by the secularists.

Like I said, I wasn't sure about Madison, I did a quick google search and couldn't find his religious affiliation. Why don't you try to debate te issue on your own rather than spewing quotes? Also, why do you continue to ignore the points I made on the other thread? Can't you find an appropriate quote to dispute me? Maybe you should look up *both* of te uses for the word 'indoctrination'. It seems to be the religious side that teaches people not to criticize their teachings.

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by UNA

Wirelessly posted
Like I said, I wasn't sure about Madison, I did a quick google search and couldn't find his religious affiliation. Why don't you try to debate te issue on your own rather than spewing quotes? Also, why do you continue to ignore the points I made on the other thread? Can't you find an appropriate quote to dispute me? Maybe you should look up *both* of te uses for the word 'indoctrination'. It seems to be the religious side that teaches people not to criticize their teachings.

list keeps getting smaller....
I don't want to hijack the thread. quotes and citations are what are called evidence (at least to me and most reasonable persons). You have yet to provide any.

[foodcritic]

Originally Posted by UNA

Wirelessly posted
my fault! John Adams was Unitarianism. My mistake. It was Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin and (I think) James Madison who were the non-Christians. I was thinking Adams was on that list.

Care to address the other points I made though?

Benjamin Franklin:

“In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine protection. Our prayers, sir were heard, and they were graciously answered . . . I therefore beg leave to move–that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business.”

James Madison, The Papers of James Madison, Henry D. Gilpin, editor (Washington: Langtree & O’Sullivan, 1840), Vol. II, p. 984-986, June 28, 1787.

“We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.”

James Madison, The Papers of James Madison, Henry D. Gilpin, editor (Washington: Langtree & O’Sullivan, 1840), Vol. II, p. 985, June 28, 1787.