Catholic priest says Mormons aren't Christians

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Bavarian

The question was to you Starman3! Where are the souls of the people who died in a state of Grace? are they already in Heaven with Jesus, His mother, the Saints or somewhsre else? Many years ago, when your "nondenominational" ideas started, I was told they were nowhere until the last day. We, Catholics, believe thay are in Purgatory, many until the end of time as Mary told the Seers at Fatima, whesked about a friend of theirs who had died.

Explain the RCC definition of "Purgatory" and Im sure it will be different than what the Holy Bible states about the souls of believers resting in the presence of the Lord which is different than the actual Day of Resurrection.

[onel0126]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Explain the RCC definition of "Purgatory" and Im sure it will be different than what the Holy Bible states about the souls of believers resting in the presence of the Lord which is different than the actual Day of Resurrection.

This should make your head go all exorcist and all

http://www.opusangelorum.org/Formation/Purgatory.html

[b23hqb]

Originally Posted by MMDad

Finally! Starman agrees with something a Catholic says!

Same here, for many of the same reasons that I fear for the souls of many, many Catholics.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by onel0126

This should make your head go all exorcist and all

Purgatory

an excerpt from your reference site:

Purgatory is a state or condition of purification in which the souls of the faithful departed are purified of their sins and faults after death.

(emphasis, mine)

What the Holy Bible states:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)


If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)


(Regarding Jesus) Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: (Hebrews 1:3)

This is a done deal in the here and now when an individual is saved by faith in Christ and born again! The purging of sin and unrighteousness has been done in the here and now.

No spiritual half-way house for needing to be punished and rehabilitated before being good enough to proceed into the presence of The Lord.

[libby]

No where in any of your quotes does it say that our cleansing is done here and now. You may want to read that into those quotes, or myriad other NT passages, but that's just your interpretation. That's what you want it to be so that you can absolve yourself of any responsibility/culpability for your behaviors.
It's very easy to say it's all said and done, and I'm saved.

Yours is the easy way out of a true, living faith, which isn't to say that Bible Christians can't be fervently in love with Christ. However, you are trying to sell something that will give many a false sense of security, the presumption that they are OSAS.

It occurred to me this morning, and I'd like to be more of a philosopher or theologian in order to better make the case, but if there is nothing that we can do to effect or lose our salvation, then there is nothing that we can do to secure our salvation, either. That lends itself to pre-destination, which you vehemently argue here.
You have fooled yourself into thinking you've got all of the answers, but when contradictions and errors in logic or theology are pointed out to you, you come up with exceptions that suit your needs.
You are way out there, Starman (wow, what a suitable moniker). Wrong on every level.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Libby, you jump to too many conclusions. You are not able to think rationally it seems. You say to Starman: "because of 'A', 'B' must be true and that's not how the Bible works.

What part of "IT IS FINISHED" or "ONE SACRIFICE FOR ALL TIMES" doesn't register with you? This is why your "mass" is sinful. Jesus' work on the cross ENDED ALL sacrifices & offerings and the Father was completely satisfied with it. God said that Jesus was the fully atoning sacrifice for our sins. YOU, my friend, are the one who refuses to accept this and REST in Christ and believe that you are only saved only once and forever.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Bavarian

Question for you and your fellow travelers. If no Purgatory, are the souls of all the dead who died in a state of Grace in Heaven with Jesus, His Mother and the Saints, and if not where are they that is not Purgatory?

Under the old covenant (BC) when believers died, their souls went to a place called Abraham's Side. It wasn't Heaven, but it was very similar.

When unbelievers died (BC) their soul went to a place called Sheol or Hades. It wasn't Hell, but very similar. Hades is a place of outer darkness and torment that will be emptied into Hell after the Millenium and the final judgment (Rev 20v14).

After Christ died and finished His work on the cross (now under the New Covenant), the unbelievers souls still went to that place called Hades to await their final judgment and later be cast into Hell forever.

Under the New Covenant, the believers souls that were at Abraham's Side were taken to Heaven (Paradise) to be with God since the price for our sins was now fully paid for by Jesus. Now, when believers die (under the New Covenant), their souls are instantly taken up to Heaven (Paradise) to be with Christ forever.

There is NO praying people out of Hades or Paradise, Bavarian. That's the fallacy of the purgatory doctrine. It is not only a lie but it gives false hopes to someone because they think they have a second chance on the other side and that's not only sinful but a serious satanic lie...

[2ndAmendment]

The term Purgatory is not in the Bible.

Purgatory was declared doctrine in 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons. Before that, it was not in Catholic doctrine.

According to what I read in the Bible, those that are Christians and have a relationship with God through Jesus are in God's kingdom immediately on death as evidenced by Jesus' words on the cross to the thief.

Luke 23:39-43

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, “Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!” 40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, “Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”

"Today" is pretty plain. No waiting.

As for the Jesus of Mormonism, it is not the same Jesus. Their Jesus is just a man.

[b23hqb]

This thread is just a rehash of a rehash of a rehash of threads that Catholicism and Mormonism are not Christian by Biblical standards, which is written by God.

No matter how much proof is placed before them of what the Bible says about Christianity, and why they are not, Mormons, Catholics, and others will continue to claim they are Christian, just because all their additional literature, outside of the Bible, tells them so.

Just so sad that Christ is just not good enough for them. His dying for all our sins just wasn't enough to satisfy their human egos. They just have to add to it and work their way into heaven.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

The term Purgatory is not in the Bible.

Neither is the term Trinity.

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Purgatory was declared doctrine in 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons. Before that, it was not in Catholic doctrine.

Correction: It was always taught and therefore a doctrine; however, it wasn't formally defined until that time. Things aren't formally defined as such until it becomes necessary due to heresy. The formal definition is, in essence, a re-affirmation of what has always been believed.