Christian Leader Blames Gay’s for Hurricane Sandy

[Dev]

Originally Posted by Zguy28

This is why you will no longer be taken seriously. You are no different than a fundie religious person who sticks his fingers in his ears.

If i claim to have a ball behind my back, but I refuse to show it to you but say its there; you are well within your bounds to disbelieve. I have to show it for you to believe it otherwise you have every reason to doubt me. Doesn't mean the ball does not exist, but until I show it to you, you have no reason to believe my claim is true.

[Zguy28]

Originally Posted by Dev

If i claim to have a ball behind my back, but I refuse to show it to you but say its there; you are well within your bounds to disbelieve. I have to show it for you to believe it otherwise you have every reason to doubt me. Doesn't mean the ball does not exist, but until I show it to you, you have no reason to believe my claim is true.

Certainly, you can choose to disbelieve, but you run against logic and into fallacy when you claim there is no such thing as a ball at all based on not seeing it.

Sadly, you are like the prisoner in Plato's cave allegory.

[Dev]

Originally Posted by Zguy28

Certainly, you can choose to disbelieve, but you run against logic and into fallacy when you claim there is no such thing as a ball at all based on not seeing it.

The possibility for god is the same as the moon being made of cheese. Possible, but absurdly improbable.

Sadly, you are like the prisoner in Plato's cave allegory.

I do fit the description of the prisoner; the freed prisoner.

The cave allegory is also the perfect representation of religion. Locked up from birth with no real concept of the world around them, perfectly analogous to those forced into one religious viewpoint or another from birth.

The freed prisoners representing those who have been educated and can see the world for what it really is. The sun being a mass of hydrogen and not a 'son'.

Wouldn't it be said of him that he went up and came back with his eyes corrupted, and that it's not even worth trying to go up? And if they were somehow able to get their hands on and kill the man who attempts to release and lead them up, wouldn't they kill him?" (517a) The prisoners, ignorant of the world behind them, would see the freed man with his corrupted eyes and be afraid of anything but what they already know.

The return of the educated prisoner being met with hostility and ignorance. The prisoners ironically finding the freed prisoner stupid because he is no longer stuck in the false reality that the shadows are all that make up the world.

Ironically, I've seen the Cave Allegory help alot of theists on the fence finally shake their indoctrination.

[Zguy28]

Originally Posted by Dev

I do fit the description of the prisoner; the freed prisoner.

The cave allegory is also the perfect representation of religion. Locked up from birth with no real concept of the world around them, perfectly analogous to those forced into one religious viewpoint or another from birth.

The freed prisoners representing those who have been educated and can see the world for what it really is. The sun being a mass of hydrogen and not a 'son'.



The return of the educated prisoner being met with hostility and ignorance. The prisoners ironically finding the freed prisoner stupid because he is no longer stuck in the false reality that the shadows are all that make up the world.

Ironically, I've seen the Cave Allegory help alot of theists on the fence finally shake their indoctrination.

You also fit the description of the chained prisoner. You are not freed to see the greater reality.

You see, I didn't grow up in a Christian family, I wasn't indoctrinated into religion. I used to be an agnostic, only seeing shadows and what was plainly in front of me, what natural science said was all there was. Then I met The Lord and was changed forever. My eyes were opened. I was blind like you, but now I see.

[Dev]

Funny how experience changes interpretation.

I grew up in an extremely religious house, indoctrinated almost from birth with all the teachings of the church. Beaten down with scripture and expected not to question anything I was told. I went through the motions: the baptism, communion, prayer, reading the bible. I was put into a local christian high school "to avoid the bad influences in the public school system." Let me just say as a sidebar that this is a complete joke and drugs/sex/booze is just as prevalent in the religious private institutions. It's hard to teach someone to think critically and expect them not to question the nature of everything they've been told to believe.

Only once I was out on my own and away from the constant reinforcement of those beliefs, I was able to discover how much of a sham religion really is. All the things I had been taught to attribute to gods grace and will suddenly had rational explanation. I could see the atrocities commited in the name of god not as righteous acts of those called to do gods work, as I had been taught.

You say I'm blind, but I'm not. I've seen that side, been there, experienced it first-hand.

[Zguy28]

Originally Posted by Dev

Funny how experience changes interpretation.

I grew up in an extremely religious house, indoctrinated almost from birth with all the teachings of the church. Beaten down with scripture and expected not to question anything I was told. I went through the motions: the baptism, communion, prayer, reading the bible. I was put into a local christian high school "to avoid the bad influences in the public school system." Let me just say as a sidebar that this is a complete joke and drugs/sex/booze is just as prevalent in the religious private institutions. It's hard to teach someone to think critically and expect them not to question the nature of everything they've been told to believe.

Only once I was out on my own and away from the constant reinforcement of those beliefs, I was able to discover how much of a sham religion really is. All the things I had been taught to attribute to gods grace and will suddenly had rational explanation. I could see the atrocities commited in the name of god not as righteous acts of those called to do gods work, as I had been taught.

You say I'm blind, but I'm not. I've seen that side, been there, experienced it first-hand.

You've experienced conformity, not grace. You were blind then, and you are still blind. You were conforming to rules and pressure.

I've experienced myself, a violent, racist, hard living person, changed forever, by God's grace. Is it anecdotal? Of course. Is it evidence of grace at work? YES!

[cheezgrits]

Originally Posted by Zguy28

You've experienced conformity, not grace. You were blind then, and you are still blind. You were conforming to rules and pressure.

I've experienced myself, a violent, racist, hard living person, changed forever, by God's grace. Is it anecdotal? Of course. Is it evidence of grace at work? YES!

Hmmm. Or are we all experiencing free will?

[baydoll]

Originally Posted by Dev

You asked if I can prove God doesn't exist. I answered that exact question.

No you did not.

This is what I asked you:

You are absolutely 100% postively sure He doesn't exist at all whatsoever?

Your 'burden of proof' rebuttal was a typically brilliant way to get around not answering that question. If you were the least bit honest you would have just simply answered it in a simple manner.

[baydoll]

Originally Posted by cheezgrits

Hmmm. Or are we all experiencing free will?

But of course. We are all given free will. We are not forced to believe in God. We are given that choice to do so or not. Some do, some don't. Such is life.

[baydoll]

Originally Posted by Dev

It is impossible to prove the non-existance of anything, whether it is god, a 3-legged talking pepperoni pizza, or a celestial teapot in elliptical orbit somewhere between Earth and Mars.

The problem with yours and Mr. Russell's quite bizarre and absurd Alice in Wonderland like assertion is that 3 legged talking pepperoni pizzas and celesial teapots are contingent material beings. God is not.

Or in other words, you and Mr. Russell are guilty of comparing little green apples to lovely thoughts.