Hamas

[cheezgrits]

Certainly can feel for all the citizens there. I understand what a fight for land and a place to live is like. Also understand the pain and humiliation of being forced to live in a camp or place you don't want to. When you see your culture killed by invaders.

But in America, we name sports teams after those people we herd up, take their land from, break promises to and kill off in a war.

Go Yids!!

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by cheezgrits

Certainly can feel for all the citizens there. I understand what a fight for land and a place to live is like. Also understand the pain and humiliation of being forced to live in a camp or place you don't want to. When you see your culture killed by invaders.

But in America, we name sports teams after those people we herd up, take their land from, break promises to and kill off in a war.

Go Yids!!

Do you know what it's like to be taken into a gas chamber to the death?

Do you know what it's like to continually be attacked in your homeland?

There's empathy for both sides of this fight.... but the stand Hamas has taken is just not acceptable. IMHO

[Beta84]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Well...since you asked!

HAMAS is one of the Fundamental Islamic groups that seek to establish Islamic control entirely over the Middle East as well as the world. They are among the Islamic factions that seek the destruction of Israel, extermination of the Jewish people and Jewish culture.

Through the "democratic process" HAMAS came into political power to control the Palestinian region that was formerly governed by Yassar Arafat's PLO group. Since you asked, here are a few ideological concepts that the HAMAS Charter proclaims:

(excertps from HAMAS Charter of 1988)

Hamas only controls the Gaza strip. Fattah controls the West Bank. Yasser Arafat may have controlled both groups of people, although technically the Gaza Strip wasn't really his to control (I can't remember when Israel relinquished control of the region).

Hamas used to avoid the democratic process and let others control Palestine and decided to run in 2006. Apparently they offer a bunch of social services to the Gaza region so they won the vote due to what they could offer.

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

As I understand it.... the Hamas has control of the Gaza Strip.... and the current shelling is a war [of sorts] between Israel and Hamas over the Gaza Strip.....

Where is the Temple Mount [where the current muslim temple is located]? How likely is it that the Muslim Temple might be demolished in this war [of sorts]?

If I heard correctly, Pres. Obama stated that he feels that no one should be supplying weapons to the Hamas. Did he say what the consequences might be for supplying those arms? Wouldn't it be likely that Russia would supply the arms?

Just bringing this up here instead of the Current Events section because it seems to go along with the end times discussions we've been in lately....

The shelling is NOT a war over the Gaza Strip itself. Israel relinquished control and isn't trying to control it (per se). Hamas wants to harm Israel and is trying to get cease fire agreements as an excuse to stop this time, but if they get what they want they'll just start it again soon after and ask for something else. Right now, they're asking for the embargo on the region to end, as well as get their fishing rights expanded from 3 miles to 30 miles on their coast, and maybe some other stuff. That would all make it harder for Israel to patrol and easier for Hamas to smuggle weapons.

The Temple mount is currently covered by the Dome of the Rock, which is in Eastern Jerusalem and located within the walls of the Old City. The Arab world has been pushing for control of Eastern Jerusalem, but Israel still controls it. As for the Dome of the Rock (and therefore the Temple Mount itself), that land is controlled by Arabs, which is authorized by Israel.

The Palestinians have not targeted Jerusalem with rockets -- most of their damage in that part of the country has been roadside or suicide bombs, so they can keep them away from the Old City and other important Arab shrines. Jerusalem is in the West Bank, while the rockets are coming from Gaza and are much closer to Tel Aviv.

Originally Posted by struggler44

HAMAS is a proxy serving IRAN; this may not be correct but the whole mid east needs to be turned to glass to keep the rest of the world safe. I am sorry for all the innocent peoples of the region who are/will be victims of extremist.

^^^ Most of their money comes from Iran and other foreign donors.

Originally Posted by Zguy28

I thought Hizbolla was the one's supplied by the Iranians? Maybe its both.

And Hot Coffee, the temple mount is where the Dome of the Rock currently is. It is one of Islam's most sacred mosques because they believe that is where Muhammed ascended to heaven.

If Israel ever destroys that, look for a nuclear exchange to follow.

Hezbollah is the one that has received far more backing by Iran, but Iran still throws some money to Hamas since its anti-Israel and can keep Israel busy.

The Dome of the Rock is apparently only holy to half of the Muslims...either Sunni or Shiite (I forget), but apparently not both. I could be wrong, but that's something I recently heard. Israel still lets the Muslims control the temple mount. They'd be more likely to seize control of that before destroying a building that sits on a site that's considered holy to at least 3 major religions. If it gets destroyed, it wouldn't be Israel doing it.

[cheezgrits]

Well...

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

Do you know what it's like to be taken into a gas chamber to the death? Obviously not

Do you know what it's like to continually be attacked in your homeland? Ever been to a reservation?

There's empathy for both sides of this fight.... but the stand Hamas has taken is just not acceptable. IMHO

Not taking a side either way...

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by cheezgrits

Well...

If you respond within my quotes I don't see the response generally.... It took me some time to figure out that you had replied.

I have indeed been to a reservation. I lived in Washington State awhile and lived just south of the Blackfoot reservation out there. They have their own laws and rituals. They also have rights that I don't. They were happy to point those differences out to the east coast girl who poured their drinks in the café bar.

I may be wrong... but it seems to me that the days when all Native Americans are required to live on the reservation have long since past. As I heard it, the reservation is a place where the culture is better lived and carried into the future.

Are you somehow comparing the history of the Native Americans to the Jewish history? If that is the case then I think you would take Israel's side on this. They feel it's their land and Hamas keeps bombing them. Israel is just fighting back.

Sorry it took me so long to see your response. Good to be in a discussion with you again.

[Starman3000m]

A follow-up from this...

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

...Presently: The prophetic turn of events to watch for would be a signing of a peace-pact in the Middle East that establishes a two-state solution. Many religions will be in support of this through the ecumenical council. This will be the beginning of the 7-year period of the antichrist which must first be introduced as "peaceful" and for the good of all.

To this:

(article excerpts)

Obama sends Clinton to Mideast amid Gaza crisis
By Julie Pace, Associated Press / November 20, 2012

Phnom Penh, Cambodia:

President Barack Obama dispatched Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton to the Middle East on Tuesday as the U.S. urgently seeks to contain the bloody conflict between Israel and Hamas.

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Clinton "will emphasize the United States' interest in a peaceful outcome that protects and enhances Israel's security and regional stability; that can lead to improved conditions for the civilian residents of Gaza; and that can reopen the path to fulfill the aspirations of Palestinians and Israelis for two states living in peace and security."
Obama sends Clinton to Mideast amid Gaza crisis # - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports -

The Prophecy:

1. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

(1 Thessalonians 5:1-6)

[cheezgrits]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

If you respond within my quotes I don't see the response generally.... It took me some time to figure out that you had replied.

I have indeed been to a reservation. I lived in Washington State awhile and lived just south of the Blackfoot reservation out there. They have their own laws and rituals. They also have rights that I don't. They were happy to point those differences out to the east coast girl who poured their drinks in the café bar.

I may be wrong... but it seems to me that the days when all Native Americans are required to live on the reservation have long since past. As I heard it, the reservation is a place where the culture is better lived and carried into the future.

Are you somehow comparing the history of the Native Americans to the Jewish history? If that is the case then I think you would take Israel's side on this. They feel it's their land and Hamas keeps bombing them. Israel is just fighting back.

Sorry it took me so long to see your response. Good to be in a discussion with you again.

Sorry for the poor responding on my part..I see what you mean.

Generally do take Israel's side on this, but honestly, they have been fighting over the same land forever.

Indians were comparable to the Jewish community to me. The Indians were rounded up, killed if they resisted and placed on reservations where still today they live in pretty rough conditions.

Jews aren't required to live in camps anymore just like Indians can live and move about freely.

Do not see the current situation fulfilling any prophecy.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by cheezgrits

...Do not see the current situation fulfilling any prophecy.

It happened before in 70 AD when Rome sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Jewish Temple. The same type of situation is occurring again but this time the prophesied war of Armageddon that is coming will be even greater and on a global scale - not just regional.

Here is what is written in the Holy Bible about that prophecy:

Stand firm, and you will win life.

“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near...(Luke 21:19-20)

Matthew, Chapter 24:

3 And as (Jesus) sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

[cheezgrits]

Got that, but there have been Israeli wars before. Just don't see this lining up, but I am not a biblical scholar, so I better just back out of this discussion!

Really do wish they'd all just stop fighting.

[GURPS (Premo)]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

There's empathy for both sides of this fight....

NO NOT Really ........ there has NEVER been a Palestinian Nation, that was made up by the Arabs in 47 to fight the JEWS


Israelis do not teach their children with kiddie shows, Killing JEWS is the path to glory through Jihaid