PBS report--Protestant Mary

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by b23hqb

Jerk your knee to this - if Mary had said no to God, then that would have to lead to one of the following conclusions:

God would not be much of a god if He did not know what answer Mary would give Him, or

God would not have chosen her in the first place, again showing that God is not really that smart or great, or

We would all still be under the Jewish religious law because the Messiah would not yet have made His first appearance.

There's no need for me to react. I actually agree with you. I'm sure I could come up with some other consquences if Mary said no, but that's ok. God may have known what she was going to say because He's God and there is no doubt in my mind that she was chosen, but that doesn't negate her free will to have made her choice. As I said, there would be no Christ in Christmas as you know it without her having assented.

Originally Posted by b23hqb

So for the focal point of the video to stress that millions and millions of non-Catholic believers think of Mary only at Christmas time is hogwash. Notice I did not say Protestant, because there is no doubt there are millions upon millions of those that have no clue about what nearly all of the Bible even says and teaches, and those numbers will include non-Protestant as well..

Is it? I was raised in various non-Catholic (if you will) churches. I know for a fact that the only time any credence was given to Mary was at Christmas. Not one sermon or discussion regarding her at any other time, which is a shame because she plays an even larger role in Jesus' life than just His birth. Do you give her any credence when you think about Jesus' death? She was, afterall, with Him from birth to death and at the foot of the cross as He died. Do you give her any credence when you think about His first miracle? She was, afterall, the one who requested it launching Him into His ministry.

I think perhaps if the only time you think of Mary is at the Incarnation then you're proving the point of the video.

Originally Posted by b23hqb

These new books are fine and dandy, but outside of the written Word of the Bibles' few mentionings of Mary the mother of Jesus, the rest is just conjecture and speculation, interesting to read and think about.

Other people's thoughts can give us new insights into scripture that we heretofore have not seen, and we may even find inspiration there. So you read a book, you may or may not agree with what the author says, what do you have to lose? What is to fear? Absolutely nothing.

[onel0126]

Mary went before us, accomplishing for all Gods people what they can only hope to do. She fulfilled that hope when she freely said yes to God. Do we freely say yes to the opportunities offered by God?

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by onel0126

Mary went before us, accomplishing for all Gods people what they can only hope to do. She fulfilled that hope when she freely said yes to God. Do we freely say yes to the opportunities offered by God?

God chose her because He knew she would be honored. She was from a religious family who loved God.

Even though I came from a religious family, if I had been approached when I was her age [in the present day and time] I would probably have said something like "yeah right... where's the hidden camera?"

[b23hqb]

Originally Posted by onel0126

Mary went before us, accomplishing for all Gods people what they can only hope to do. She fulfilled that hope when she freely said yes to God. Do we freely say yes to the opportunities offered by God?

Just curious, but what do you mean by "accomplishing for all Gods people what they can only hope to do."?

Mary accomplished nothing other than obeying God and giving human birth to Christ - a once in history event. What did she accomplish that every one else can only hope to do?

To answer your question referring to "the opportunities offered by God?" - that is up to the individual. I would say that, including myself, that millions and millions of believers have accepted the opportunities offered by God - to serve Him, to minister to others, to go out to the mission fields, to help in mission efforts, teaching Sunday School or Bible classes, perform music ministries, church public outreach programs - along with the myriad other examples of following the will of God.

It would be a really sad, hopeless testimony to every believer that has ever lived to have done nothing because Mary, and only Mary, had accomplished everything, and that it would be a fruitless effort to do anything because we could never be what Mary was/is.

I don't want to be like Mary. I want to be like Christ, who, by the way, was the only reason for Mary's existence.

I serve a risen Savior.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by b23hqb

Mary accomplished nothing other than obeying God and giving human birth to Christ - a once in history event. What did she accomplish that every one else can only hope to do?

You pretty much just answered your own question.

[b23hqb]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You pretty much just answered your own question.

Again, what did Mary accomplish besides giving physical birth to Christ Jesus, that anyone else can only hope to accomplish? Are you and the poster I quoted saying that every other woman in history wishes they had been the birth mother of Jesus? Or no one else is capable of accomplishing the will of God?

In other words, what else did Mary do that no other human, man or woman, is capable of?

[onel0126]

Originally Posted by b23hqb

Again, what did Mary accomplish besides giving physical birth to Christ Jesus, that anyone else can only hope to accomplish? Are you and the poster I quoted saying that every other woman in history wishes they had been the birth mother of Jesus? Or no one else is capable of accomplishing the will of God?

In other words, what else did Mary do that no other human, man or woman, is capable of?

I simply meant she said yes to an unimaginable question. Do we do the same? I also think you greatly discount her role in his life during the years not mentioned in scriptures (but I realize that doesn't pass the sola scriptura sniff test)! Your contention that her role was a one and done event I think is disingenuous at best and proves exactly what the documentary was saying--you pull her out at Christmas and pack her away afterwards like an ornament.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by b23hqb

Again, what did Mary accomplish besides giving physical birth to Christ Jesus, that anyone else can only hope to accomplish? Are you and the poster I quoted saying that every other woman in history wishes they had been the birth mother of Jesus? Or no one else is capable of accomplishing the will of God?

In other words, what else did Mary do that no other human, man or woman, is capable of?

Why do you feel it necessary to quantify that with a "besides" or "what else"? There is no "besides" or "what else" unless you want to be cognitively dissonant. But even so, I think it safe to say that neither you or I follow the will of God perfectly as Mary did.

Good grief man, if you don't want to honor her for what is her due that's your choice, but don't try to convince other Protestants they are wrong for doing so.

[onel0126]

Interesting reading...

Until We Rest in Thee: The Mariology of John 1:13

[b23hqb]

Originally Posted by onel0126

I simply meant she said yes to an unimaginable question. Do we do the same? I also think you greatly discount her role in his life during the years not mentioned in scriptures (but I realize that doesn't pass the sola scriptura sniff test)! Your contention that her role was a one and done event I think is disingenuous at best and proves exactly what the documentary was saying--you pull her out at Christmas and pack her away afterwards like an ornament.

I'll buy that answer foryour first three sentences.

I did not say her role was a one and done event. I said in comparison to your complete statement that I quoted you on, you placed no one else capable of following Gods will in the same no-questions-asked situation. Ask Daniel that. Or Shradrach, Meshach, Abed-nego, Noah, Job, Paul numerous times, Stephen, Peter, countless saints in the mission fields since then - that follow Gods will in situations just as unimaginable.

No doubt Mary was a fine, loving mother to Jesus and at least five other children through Joseph. She stood by Him to his death and resurrection, and during the formation of the early Christian church (Acts 1:12-14).

As far as your example of a Christmas ornament, I disagree. I, and many, many others do not do the Nativity scene as modern day perceives it, just because it is inaccurate and places way too much emphasis on the mother and not the Son. An image of the baby Jesus in a manger would more than suffice.

There is, in Scriptures, no mention of animals present, but there could be. The three Wise men or Maggi, were not present until about two years later.

We respect Mary for what she was, her knowledge of the scriptures, and her willingness to follow Gods will.

In the grand scheme of eternity, she was, is, and will be but a footnote in the Light of His glory and grace.

I plan on looking her up in heaven, along with everyone else I believe were written about in the Scriptures.