PBS report--Protestant Mary

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You and I have no problem looking at the bigger picture presented in scripture and/or using non-biblical historical sources to confirm (in other words rationale); however, Starman surely must have a problem with this for he takes umbrage any time the Catholic Church does so. Therefore, he needs to give this Sunday thing a great deal of thought lest he be considered at the very least inconsistent in his approach or at the most a hypocrite...again.

Ok, I'll give you that. There is one mention in Revelations but it's not indicative of whether it means the sabbath.

Um... where have I ever mentioned that I observe "Sunday" as my day of worship??? Did you "Assume" this?

I believe this was brought up once before where I stated my worship to God is seven (7) days a week and my roots are Sephardic-Messianic Judaism.

[onel0126]

Originally Posted by libby

You are a piece of work, y'know? You're all bent out of shape about some insidious plan the RCC had to honor pagan gods. However, when your own conformity to pagan ideas is pointed out your excuse is that it's merely that you must be in this world without being part of it. Not enough charity or humility to offer that same benefit to the Christians of the earlier centuries.
Not to mention the fact that the date of Jesus' birth and death have not a stinking thing to do with salvation in the first place.

Here here. Those Christians of the earlier centuries are to be ignored Libby according to Starman as they are extra-biblical. He ignores the fact they worshiped the way they were instructed to by good Christians that in some case were only a generation after the Apostles. The Didache describes worshiping this way as does Justin. I even posted Justin's letter from 55AD describing the way worship was carried out (YouTube video). NONE OF WHICH DESCRIBE STARMAN'S BIBLE ONLY WAY OF WORSHIPING.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Um... where have I ever mentioned that I observe "Sunday" as my day of worship??? Did you "Assume" this?

I believe this was brought up once before where I stated my worship to God is seven (7) days a week and my roots are Sephardic-Messianic Judaism.

You're right, I assumed. Please accept my apologies. I used to date a Sephardic Jew. I'll refrain from telling you what he would have thought of you. Do Messianic Jews get persecuted much in the Jewish community?

Ok, so you worship God seven days a week, that's great. Do you keep holy the Sabbath (whatever day it might be)?

I hope that all other "bible-only" persons pay heed to what I said regarding Sunday. Scripture does not direct you to worship on Sunday. That is what most of you would consider a man-made tradition, which is something you profess to hate.

[StoneThrower]

Originally Posted by cheezgrits

So, apparently, pagans are responsible for most of the calendar organization of the world.

So, what day is the Sabbath?

hint: it ain't Sunday.

So, who wants to do lunar calendar with me? I can teach you all how to tell time by "hands" of time. Measure the seasons by availability of food source and cycles of the sun?

There's no such thing as the Sabbath anymore unless you are a Jew or part of the Seventh day cult, the sabbath was a foreshadow, and Christ was the fullfilment of it, we rest in our salvation in Him, as having done the work on the cross.

[StoneThrower]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I can see where you might think it is.

There is no biblical basis for the sabbath being changed to Sunday, and frankly there is no biblical basis for calling it "The Lord's Day" either. Perhaps persons like yourself who are stricly bible-only should stop going to church on Sunday (or whatever nonpagan name you want to call that day) as well.

Actually there is Biblical evidence for the Lords Day and there is no such thing as the sabbath as its been fufilled at the cross.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

The church worshipped on the first day of the week not the last.

Acts 20:7
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow, and continued his speech until midnight.

Corinthians 16:2
2 Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You're right, I assumed. Please accept my apologies.

Apology accepted.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I used to date a Sephardic Jew. I'll refrain from telling you what he would have thought of you.

Orthodox? No need to tell me. I already know.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Do Messianic Jews get persecuted much in the Jewish community?

There is subtle persecution and indifference but certainly not like the first-century Messianic Jews who accepted The New Testament Jesus (Yeshua HaMashiach) as THE Jewish Messiah. As you know, during that time Messianic Jews who converted from Orthodox Judaism to follow the teachings of Christ were persecuted and stoned for their faith.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Ok, so you worship God seven days a week, that's great. Do you keep holy the Sabbath (whatever day it might be)?

In reality, we should keep all days Holy if indeed we have a spiritual relationship and daily walk with God. There is a Messianic fellowship in my area (albeit a small one) that meets on the Sabbath/Shabbat/Saturday. The first one of these that I attended was in 1992 in Hawaii. Very uplifting worship.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I hope that all other "bible-only" persons pay heed to what I said regarding Sunday. Scripture does not direct you to worship on Sunday. That is what most of you would consider a man-made tradition, which is something you profess to hate.

The Biblical account of Christ being Resurrected on the first day of the week is not a man-made tradition. If Evangelicals/Protestants wish to observe that in remembrance of when Christ defeated death to offer mankind Eternal Life, then it certainly is not following anything that Rome can be credited for.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by StoneThrower

There's no such thing as the Sabbath anymore unless you are a Jew or part of the Seventh day cult, the sabbath was a foreshadow, and Christ was the fullfilment of it, we rest in our salvation in Him, as having done the work on the cross.

I wasn't aware Christians didn't need to follow the 10 commandments any longer. :ahemcoughcough:

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Orthodox?

No.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

There is subtle persecution and indifference ...

Conversely, do Messianic Jews persecute Jews (Orthodox or otherwise)?

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

The Biblical account of Christ being Resurrected on the first day of the week is not a man-made tradition. If Evangelicals/Protestants wish to observe that in remembrance of when Christ defeated death to offer mankind Eternal Life, then it certainly is not following anything that Rome can be credited for.

For God's sake give it a rest, nobody said anything about Rome. Yes, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week; however, He Himself kept the Sabbath holy on the last day of the week. There is no scriptural mandate to keep Sabbath on the first day; therefore, it's a man-made tradition.

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

No.

Okay, I am sure that you know that "Sephardic" is a Spanish Jew. So, if your friend was not Orthodox, what sect of Judaism was he?

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Conversely, do Messianic Jews persecute Jews (Orthodox or otherwise)?

No. There is no persecution nor should there be against anyone. On the contrary, Messianic Jews as well as Orthodox Jews and other sects were the ones persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church during the Inquisitions. (At least we have that in common.)

BTW: Messianic Jews originate from the very first-century believers and share in partaking of the Great Commission; proclaiming Salvation through Christ, The Son of God, whose shed blood atones for the sins of those who receive Him as written in Scriptures.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

For God's sake give it a rest, nobody said anything about Rome. Yes, Jesus resurrected on the first day of the week; however, He Himself kept the Sabbath holy on the last day of the week. There is no scriptural mandate to keep Sabbath on the first day; therefore, it's a man-made tradition.

Speaking of man-made tradition - you as a Catholic are committing a grave sin if you do not meet to worship on the Sunday Eucharist. Is that correct?
No need to respond as the following info gives us the answer.

II. The Lord's Day
Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church
The Sunday Eucharist

2181 The Sunday Eucharist is the foundation and confirmation of all Christian practice. For this reason the faithful are obliged to participate in the Eucharist on days of obligation, unless excused for a serious reason (for example, illness, the care of infants) or dispensed by their own pastor.
Those who deliberately fail in this obligation commit a grave sin.

Grave sin??? What happens to Catholics who fail to partake of the Sunday Eucharist then? Please be honest and tell us what the punishment is according to the Roman Catholic Church.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Okay, I am sure that you know that "Sephardic" is a Spanish Jew. So, if your friend was not Orthodox, what sect of Judaism was he?

No. There is no persecution nor should there be against anyone. On the contrary, Messianic Jews as well as Orthodox Jews and other sects were the ones persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church during the Inquisitions. (At least we have that in common.)

I've read some different things on the net regarding persecution (if you want to call it that these days) of Jews from the Messianic community, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm well aware of the history. My ex-bf was from Morocco, his family immigrated to Morocco due to the Inquisition.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

BTW: Messianic Jews originate from the very first-century believers and share in partaking of the Great Commission; proclaiming Salvation through Christ, The Son of God, whose shed blood atones for the sins of those who receive Him as written in Scriptures.

You're going to have to give me some historical documents to back this up. As far as I'm aware there is no historical evidence for any of what is now called "Messianic Jew"-ish movement throughout the ages until the 1960-70s. And, btw, those early Jews were Christians.

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Speaking of man-made tradition - you as a Catholic are committing a grave sin if you do not meet to worship on the Sunday Eucharist. Is that correct?
No need to respond as the following info gives us the answer.

Grave sin??? What happens to Catholics who fail to partake of the Sunday Eucharist then? Please be honest and tell us what the punishment is according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Yeah, we kind of frown on not following those 10 comandments. You know, keeping holy the Sabbath. I'm sure as a Messianic Jew you have no problem with that. There is no punishment with repentence. If one refuses to repent then they remove themselves from God's grace. Not much different from what you believe regarding sin and repentence.

You know, your constant need to try to find something sinister about the Catholic Church reveals a great deal about your character and it doesn't say a whole lot for Evangelicalism either, which ultimately reflects on Christ. I'm sure you've been told that before but I'm thinking you need a reminder.

[onel0126]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You know, your constant need to try to find something sinister about the Catholic Church reveals a great deal about your character and it doesn't say a whole lot for Evangelicalism either, which ultimately reflects on Christ. I'm sure you've been told that before but I'm thinking you need a reminder.

All this plus it is clear to me that some of his hatred for the Catholic Church is carry over from his parents' experience with a particular parish. Of course this will be denied.