Sola Scriptura part II

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

The bible is NOT sola scriptura, who are you trying to kid?

The phrase sola scriptura is from the Latin: sola having the idea of “alone,” “ground,” “base,” and the word scriptura meaning “writings”—referring to the Scriptures. Sola scriptura means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian. The Bible is complete, authoritative, and true. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

What is sola scriptura?

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Gen. to Rev. - Scripture never says that Scripture is the sole infallible authority for God's Word. Scripture also mandates the use of tradition. This fact alone disproves sola Scriptura.

Never say never!

Deuteronomy 4v2
Proverbs 30v5, 6
Matthew 15v6
Acts 17v11 and 18v28
1 Corinthians 4v6

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Luke 1:1-4 - Luke acknowledges that the faithful have already received the teachings of Christ, and is writing his Gospel only so that they "realize the certainty of the teachings you have received." Luke writes to verify the oral tradition they already received.

That's a BIG assumption lady! Keep doing that "twist". You're doing exactly what God forbids you to do. You are adding words to the Scripture. Luke NEVER said "oral tradition" anywhere! He studied the Scriptures and he consulted the "eye witnesses". That's NOT oral tradition.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Acts 8:30-31; Heb. 5:12 - these verses show that we need help in interpreting the Scriptures. We cannot interpret them infallibly on our own. We need divinely appointed leadership within the Church to teach us.

But how do you know that what they're teaching is correct?
Try this one out: 1 John 2 v 26, 27

Originally Posted by Radiant1

2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it. Again, this refers to tradition which is found outside of the Bible.

Actually it was from his mother & grandmother, who read the Scriptures to him from infancy. You have to read verse 15 also. He got his info from Scriptures. Read 16 & 17 also. SS baby!

Originally Posted by Radiant1

2 Peter 1:20 - interpreting Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation. Therefore, it must be a matter of "public" interpretation of the Church. The Divine Word needs a Divine Interpreter. Private judgment leads to divisions, and this is why there are 30,000 different Protestant denominations.

This is where Catholic doctrine fails also.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

2 Peter 3:16 - the Scriptures are difficult to understand and can be distorted by the ignorant to their destruction. God did not guarantee the Holy Spirit would lead each of us to infallibly interpret the Scriptures. But this is what Protestants must argue in order to support their doctrine of sola Scriptura. History and countless divisions in Protestantism disprove it.

Don't blame the Bible for their misunderstanding of it...

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Gen. to Rev. - Protestants must admit that knowing what books belong in the Bible is necessary for our salvation. However, because the Bible has no "inspired contents page," you must look outside the Bible to see how its books were selected. This destroys the sola Scriptura theory. The canon of Scripture is a Revelation from God which is necessary for our salvation, and which comes from outside the Bible. Instead, this Revelation was given by God to the Catholic Church, the pinnacle and foundation of the truth (1 Tim. 3:15).

So, IYO, the Holy Spirit couldn't guide those men as to which books belonged in the Bible? Hardly!

No, it's because of false teachings & false teachers who would try to discount the truth that there has to be discernment in selecting the correct books for the Bible. Amazing how the RCC missed that in the Apocryphal books isn't it?

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by Starman3000m

Let me spell it out for you. The bible is the Word of God. Sola Scriptura is your method for determining what the Word of God means. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

Never say never!

Deuteronomy 4v2
Proverbs 30v5, 6
Matthew 15v6
Acts 17v11 and 18v28
1 Corinthians 4v6

That's a BIG assumption lady! Keep doing that "twist". You're doing exactly what God forbids you to do. You are adding words to the Scripture. Luke NEVER said "oral tradition" anywhere! He studied the Scriptures and he consulted the "eye witnesses". That's NOT oral tradition.

But how do you know that what they're teaching is correct?
Try this one out: 1 John 2 v 26, 27

Actually it was from his mother & grandmother, who read the Scriptures to him from infancy. You have to read verse 15 also. He got his info from Scriptures. Read 16 & 17 also. SS baby!

This is where Catholic doctrine fails also.

I really have no desire to get into a pissing match with you regarding interpretation of scripture because as far as I'm concerned by your sola scriptura standards I'm free to do so as I will. You and I will always disagree on it, so I'll tell you like I've told Zguy and the thrower of stones -- Now, what we see is that we have two different interpretations and understandings of scripture, so if we rely on scripture alone where does that leave us?

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

Don't blame the Bible for their misunderstanding of it...

So, IYO, the Holy Spirit couldn't guide those men as to which books belonged in the Bible? Hardly!

No, it's because of false teachings & false teachers who would try to discount the truth that there has to be discernment in selecting the correct books for the Bible. Amazing how the RCC missed that in the Apocryphal books isn't it?

I don't blame the bible, I blame sola scriptura.

What part of "The canon of Scripture is a Revelation from God which is necessary for our salvation, and which comes from outside the Bible" did you not understand? Absolutely the Holy Spirit guided those men. You're missing the point however. If men had to decide what books were in the bible, then those men are extra-biblical and sola scriptura FAILS MISERABLY. The bible itself doesn't tell you what books it is to contain. It's not that hard to understand, IS.

Your last comment/point is moot. In other words, you don't have a point...again.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Now, what we see is that we have two different interpretations and understandings of scripture, so if we rely on scripture alone where does that leave us? I don't blame the bible, I blame sola scriptura.

It leaves us right where we started. One of us is wrong and the "judge" is the Bible (properly interpreted of course). If you stuck to the Bible alone, you wouldn't have erroneous doctrines floating around your head.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

You're missing the point however. If men had to decide what books were in the bible, then those men are extra-biblical and sola scriptura FAILS MISERABLY. The bible itself doesn't tell you what books it is to contain.

That's really stretching it now. You're trying to make the Bible a living object. As if it can compile and glue itself together.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

It leaves us right where we started. One of us is wrong and the "judge" is the Bible (properly interpreted of course). If you stuck to the Bible alone, you wouldn't have erroneous doctrines floating around your head.

I don't know about you, but my judge is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

That's really stretching it now. You're trying to make the Bible a living object. As if it can compile and glue itself together.

And it can't, which is why even sola scriptura must rely on something or someone, which is what you call extra-biblical; therefore, the bible alone cannot be the sole source of authority. Oh irony of ironies! Did I tell you I like irony? Btw, if you think it's the bible that judges you then perhaps you are the one anthropomorphizing it. :ahem:

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I don't know about you, but my judge is my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I never doubted that.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

And it can't, which is why even sola scriptura must rely on something or someone, which is what you call extra-biblical; therefore, the bible alone cannot be the sole source of authority. Oh irony of ironies! Did I tell you I like irony? Btw, if you think it's the bible that judges you then perhaps you are the one anthropomorphizing it. :ahem:

The words in it will be...never mind.