Something (disturbing) i have noticed

[hotcoffee]

[QUOTE=StoneThrower;5024536] Perhaps the way to end it, is to start at the begining, and define what a Christian is. Of which only a select few will agree on that, if there is no agreement on that, than there can be no agreement as to what a church is.
QUOTE]

And the best way to define what a Christian is... is to get into the Word and get out of the bickering.... then everyone wins.... right?

[Starman3000m]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

I don't recall having done so. You agreed to disagree, which has meant absolutely nothing.

Let's try this:


I believe that Sola Scriptura is all we need to know the Truth of God's Plan of Salvation through faith in Christ alone. There is no need for extra-Biblical teachings nor need to be subject to papal authority and the Bible does not teach that Mary would reign as Queen of Heaven.

You believe that "Sola Scriptura does not work for Catholics" and that there is a need for extra-Biblical teachings as set forth through the succession of papal authority including prayers to patron saints and to Mary who reigns as Queen of Heaven, etc.

You and I disagree theologically on these items. Agreed?

[StoneThrower]

[QUOTE=hotcoffee;5025321]

Originally Posted by StoneThrower

Perhaps the way to end it, is to start at the begining, and define what a Christian is. Of which only a select few will agree on that, if there is no agreement on that, than there can be no agreement as to what a church is.
QUOTE]

And the best way to define what a Christian is... is to get into the Word and get out of the bickering.... then everyone wins.... right?

I am out of the bickering business! But I dont think that will work either because if you read the word with rose colored glasses and the next person has green glasses, you will interpret it one way, and they another, and then we are back to the same place all over again. We need a starting point that we all agree on and we dont have it.

We dont agree on what Gods word is.
We dont agree what a Christian is.
We dont agree that Gods word is the final authority.
That its everything need for Life and Godliness.
We dont agree on what being saved means (Born Again).
We dont agree or ordances vs scraments or how many.
We dont agree on sin or the weight of it.
We dont even agree that if Christ isnt your Lord He's not your savior!
We dont even agree that you need to be obident to the Lords commands.

We dont even agree on the last as Protestants.


So how can we read the Bible and discuss it. The first point of contention will probably be Jesus Family, if Mary remained a virgin.... and we have had that thread before too, but I am game. More on Matthew to follow.

[ItalianScallion (Premo)]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

Do you mean John 8:33?

No. I meant the toungue lashing that Jesus gave the Jews in vs 34-47.

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

...There's a difference between what Jesus was saying [especially when He was facing the Pharisees] and the quibbling over who's church is right and who's church is wrong....

The Phariseee et al WERE a "church" in their own rite back then so, actually, there isn't a difference. I'm "quibbling about whose church is right" because every church has some wrong teachings in it. Now I normally don't address the secondary doctrines of a church but I must address and counter them if they contradict the Bible. And the issues I've been addressing here, are.

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

Look at this.... Paul is discussing problems within the church.... which is pretty much on topic here IMHO. 1 Corinthians 6 New International Version (NIV) Lawsuits Among Believers...I'm saying we shouldn't be bickering about who's church is better in this forum because there are non=believers in here and Satan will use that to dilute the message we should be bringing to them..... right?

Oh come on, seriously? Non believers won't "dilute the message" if it's put out there "nicely"? They will find a way to "dilute" anything we say. We have to put it out there and let the chips fall where they may.

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

If the gospel itself were being battered here.... I would stand up strong... but we're not talking about the gospel here.... it's the differences in churches that is at debate.... and that's just not something that can be resolved here.... it takes away from the gospel. If someone says "oh I don't need Jesus to get to heaven".... I'm right on that debate..... but if someone says I am going to heaven because I'm a Baptist or a Catholic or non-denominational.... that's just not worthy of discussion here....

Are you listening to yourself? Really? Are you really saying that Jesus never argued with the Pharisees, Saducees, Jews, High Priests or Teachers of the Law about their "denominational" differences?

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

I don't think which church is the answer..... It's Grace....
It's by the Grace of God that we are saved.... not by the doctrine of the meeting hall.... but humans can sure mess things up....

Again, are you really hearing what you're saying? It's "not the doctrine of the meeting hall"? So you're ok with JW's, Mormons & Muslims meeting hall doctrines? Really? It, very much, has everything to do with the doctrines of the meeting halls or churches.

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

And the best way to define what a Christian is... is to get into the Word and get out of the bickering.... then everyone wins.... right?

"So heavenly minded that you're no earthly good". Sorry but it applies here.

Am I among first grade Christians here? Have any of you ever really gone out into the "trenches" and witnessed to the lost? Christianity 101 is where we worry about what a Christian really is. I'd have hoped that most of you here passed that stage eons ago because this thread has nothing to do with what a Christian is...

[Cheeky1]

Originally Posted by onel0126

An observation....A lot of local Protestant churches--to be fair most are non-denominational instead of denominational, preach anti-Catholic rhetoric. This is evident in their youth groups as well. I don't expect any of you to acknowledge that you have personally experienced this--it would only bolster my point.

Hand to God, I have been a member of many Catholic parishes and I have never heard priests spew forth hate. In fact, in terms of disagreeing with Protestant doctrine, always done in a reverent manner.

Over the past year my kids were denied entry by a group of students in their high school to a morning prayer circle (lead by kids from New Life church in La Plata) because they were
"Catholic and not Christian." One kid told my kids that Catholics weren't allowed to cry at funerals and the only thing Catholics care about is money.

I would like to point out that this is a clear example of Protestant oral tradition. From pastor X to mommy and daddy to little Johnny.

In downtown La Plata a local store front church regularly demonstrates with signs at the intersection of 6/301 against the Catholic Church.

I was told recently by a child staying the night at our house that the Catholic Church is not a
Christian Church because it doesn't have full immersion baptism and altar calls. Again, she is a product of a non-denom youth group. Can you imagine a child who is a guest in your house telling you that your religion is a cult (except for Starman's kids)?

These churches are turning out little hate mongers instead of proclaimers of the Gospels.

This doesn't sound much like a religion problem, as it does a human problem.

[StoneThrower]

Originally Posted by ItalianScallion

Have any of you ever really gone out into the "trenches" and witnessed to the lost?

Yes quite a lot, especially at events like ignite the night, the oyster fest, Freedom fest in DC and have done a few of the 500 events were we go out 500 of us and hit a town I did Atlanta twice.

Open invitation here to anyone thats equipped. I am always looking for someone to go out with,. and although I have yet to do it I like to do some open air preaching as well. If you have off on a Friday, Saint Marys College is a great fishing hole!

[hotcoffee]

ItalianScallion..... it's always interesting to get into a debate with you.... we are clearly on opposite sides of the catholic v protestant trenches and you are clearly more educated than I....

There are indeed 1st grader Christians in here.... not that we are a high breed... more that we are only a few years into the solid food offered in the Word....

I know this because I am one of them.

As I've stated numerous times over the years.... sometimes some of you go way over my head.... I prefer much easier to digest discussions.... layman's terms and basic language get my attention.... and I have learned over my 62 years here on earth that I am never in a boat alone... so there are others out there who are reading this forum who would like to soften some of the bludgeoning tones that take place between some of the "Christians" in these forums.

You asked if I have been in the trenches.... I was homeless for a little over 18 months.... do you have any idea how many of the homeless need Christ? I do... It's quite a chore to teach a Bible Study without a Bible or a leader's book but it's so rewarding when you get to tell someone about the real Jesus based on the Nativity [the real one where the wise men don't show up in Bethlehem] the parables and the feeding of the 5000, and a lot of the people I talked to loved to learn how Jesus came back and ate fish with the disciples after being laid in a borrowed tomb.... and more.... basics work.... I've seen it....

It's not the town hall.... it's the message.... that's my point....

[migtig]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

It's not the town hall.... it's the message.... that's my point....

I agree. It seems the message gets lost on these forums a lot. I try to read the threads, trying to find a glimpse of knowledge, but see squabbling instead. My religion is better than your religion.

The word of G-d gets lost in that.

Again, I'll share these verses


1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

------

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.


And because I'm on a roll here, did not G-d found all the churches? Didn't He say He'd destroy the false churches? So the religion/church not being right or wrong is not your responsibility nor your decision to make. It's His. Your responsibility is not to decide which way to worship is the best way to worship. He'll decide that. You are not supposed to Judge, He does that.

Your responsibility is to believe and follow and obey.

[bcp (Premo)]

Born and raised Lutheran,
Never heard any comments about Catholics in church.

But, the Catholics do tend to be less open to other religions, Maybe this is the basis of the comments?.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by bcp

Born and raised Lutheran,
Never heard any comments about Catholics in church.

But, the Catholics do tend to be less open to other religions, Maybe this is the basis of the comments?.

You haven't been reading this forum much, have you?