Matthew chapter 1

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

I don't know how I would react if an Angel appeared in front of me, let alone how I would react if that Angel told me I had found favor in God's eyes and I would now conceive a child.... even tho I was a little girl [basically] who had never been with a man.... and I was engaged to be wed to someone... and now I'd have to tell him....

I could just hear him saying "yeah right!"..... It's an awesome story.... Mary and Joseph were two heros in the family of David.... to be sure....

Imagine the look on his face when she told him as he tried to process it, and the pain and anguish in his heart and mind on what to do next. I agree with you, Joseph most assuredly loved Mary for choosing not to stone her.

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Imagine the look on his face when she told him as he tried to process it, and the pain and anguish in his heart and mind on what to do next. I agree with you, Joseph most assuredly loved Mary for choosing not to stone her.

Joseph "enjoyed" a visit from an Angel as well.

In the beginning, God walked in the garden with Adam and Eve.... then when Moses led the people out of Egypt, God led them [as a pillar of smoke by day and fire by night].... but after decades of idol worship and multitudes of other sins, God had divided Israel and exiled them.....

A visiting Angel would have been most unbelievable and extremely rare indeed.

So not only did Joseph have to accept that he had seen an angel, he had to accept what the angel said as truth [not some hallucination] and then choose to do as God had said.

We'll learn later in the gospels that Mary was protected by others too.... but for now....

Mary and Joseph were courageous.... they displayed faith....

Now.... while studying the gospels.... we have a choice as well... to believe is to be courageous and display faith as well....

It takes courage to say "I believe the Bible is inspired by God" and it takes faith to believe it to be true....

[hotcoffee]

Matthew 2

New International Version (NIV)


The Magi Visit the Messiah

2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi[a] from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

3 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied, “for this is what the prophet has written:


6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’[b]”

7 Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, “Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

The Escape to Egypt

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”[c]

16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:


18 “A voice is heard in Ramah,
weeping and great mourning,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because they are no more.”[d]

The Return to Nazareth

19 After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt 20 and said, “Get up, take the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those who were trying to take the child’s life are dead.”

21 So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to the land of Israel. 22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23 and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, that he would be called a Nazarene.


Footnotes:
a.Matthew 2:1 Traditionally wise men
b.Matthew 2:6 Micah 5:2,4
c.Matthew 2:15 Hosea 11:1
d.Matthew 2:18 Jer. 31:15

[Radiant1]

[1-12] The future rejection of Jesus by Israel and his acceptance by the Gentiles are retrojected into this scene of the narrative.

[1] In the days of King Herod: Herod reigned from 37 to 4 B.C. Magi: originally a designation of the Persian priestly caste, the word became used of those who were regarded as having more than human knowledge. Matthew's magi are astrologers.

[2] We saw his star: it was a common ancient belief that a new star appeared at the time of a ruler's birth. Matthew also draws upon the Old Testament story of Balaam, who had prophesied that "A star shall advance from Jacob" (Numbers 24:17), though there the star means not an astral phenomenon but the king himself.

[4] Herod's consultation with the chief priests and scribes has some similarity to a Jewish legend about the child Moses in which the "sacred scribes" warn Pharaoh about the imminent birth of one who will deliver Israel from Egypt and the king makes plans to destroy him. Matthew 2:11: Cf Psalm 72:10, 15; Isaiah 60:6. These Old Testament texts led to the interpretation of the magi as kings.

[11] Psalm 72:10; Psalm 72:15; Isaiah 60:6; These Old Testament texts led to the interpretation of the magi as Kings.

[13-23] Biblical and nonbiblical traditions about Moses are here applied to the child Jesus, though the dominant Old Testament type is not Moses but Israel (Matthew 2:15).

[13] Flee to Egypt: Egypt was a traditional place of refuge for those fleeing from danger in Palestine (see 1 Kings 11:40; Jeremiah 26:21), but the main reason why the child is to be taken to Egypt is that he may relive the Exodus experience of Israel.

[15] The fulfillment citation is taken from Hosea 11:1. Israel, God's son, was called out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus; Jesus, the Son of God, will similarly be called out of that land in a new exodus. The father-son relationship between God and the nation is set in a higher key. Here the son is not a group adopted as "son of God," but the child who, as conceived by the holy Spirit, stands in unique relation to God. He is son of David and of Abraham, of Mary and of Joseph, but, above all, of God.

[18] Jeremiah 31:15 portrays Rachel, wife of the patriarch Jacob, weeping for her children taken into exile at the time of the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom (722-21 B.C.). Bethlehem was traditionally identified with Ephrath, the place near which Rachel was buried (see Genesis 35:19; 48:7), and the mourning of Rachel is here applied to her lost children of a later age. Ramah: about six miles north of Jerusalem. The lamentation of Rachel is so great as to be heard at a far distance.

[20] For those who sought the child's life are dead: Moses, who had fled from Egypt because the Pharaoh sought to kill him (see Exodus 2:15), was told to return there, "for all the men who sought your life are dead" (Exodus 4:19).

[22] With the agreement of the emperor Augustus, Archelaus received half of his father's kingdom, including Judea, after Herod's death. He had the title "ethnarch" (i.e., "ruler of a nation") and reigned from 4 B.C. to A.D. 6.

[23] Nazareth . . . he shall be called a Nazorean: the tradition of Jesus' residence in Nazareth was firmly established, and Matthew sees it as being in accordance with the foreannounced plan of God. The town of Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, and no such prophecy can be found there. The vague expression "through the prophets" may be due to Matthew's seeing a connection between Nazareth and certain texts in which there are words with a remote similarity to the name of that town. Some such Old Testament texts are Isaiah 11:1 where the Davidic king of the future is called "a bud" (neser) that shall blossom from the roots of Jesse, and Judges 13:5, 7 where Samson, the future deliverer of Israel from the Philistines, is called one who shall be consecrated (a nazir) to God.

New American Bible Copyright © 1991, 1986, 1970 Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, Inc., Washington, DC. All rights reserved.

[hotcoffee]

Oh my Radiant.... I think we have some controversy between what you wrote and what the NIV says.... I'll try to get to it tonight or early in the morning and point out what I see....

On a side note... please put me on all your prayer lists.... had a test yesterday and it didn't turn out terminal but it didn't turn out good either....

So I need you all to pray for the hands of the doctors on March 12th....

TIA

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

Oh my Radiant.... I think we have some controversy between what you wrote and what the NIV says.... I'll try to get to it tonight or early in the morning and point out what I see....

On a side note... please put me on all your prayer lists.... had a test yesterday and it didn't turn out terminal but it didn't turn out good either....

So I need you all to pray for the hands of the doctors on March 12th....

TIA

Take as much time as you need.

I will pray for your health and that by the grace of God all doctors/surgeons utilize their talent and skills to the utmost when you need them.

[libby]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by hotcoffee

Oh my Radiant.... I think we have some controversy between what you wrote and what the NIV says....

And here we go, R1; this is what I expected out of such a thread.
The Catholic Bible is off. However, myriad nameless, faceless scribes, translators and publishers who are responsible for the Bible she picked up at Barnes and Noble could not possibly be wrong. They were divinely inspired as they did their work.

[Radiant1]

Originally Posted by libby

And here we go, R1; this is what I expected out of such a thread.
The Catholic Bible is off. However, myriad nameless, faceless scribes, translators and publishers who are responsible for the Bible she picked up at Barnes and Noble could not possibly be wrong. They were divinely inspired as they did their work.

I suspect it's something to that effect, but am taking a wait-and-see approach.

[hotcoffee]

[QUOTE=libby;5034701]

And here we go, R1; this is what I expected out of such a thread.
The Catholic Bible is off. However, myriad nameless, faceless scribes, translators and publishers who are responsible for the Bible she picked up at Barnes and Noble could not possibly be wrong. They were divinely inspired as they did their work.

It's not all that catholic/protestant stuff.... I started the thread to talk about the New Testament.... and what it means to us all....

R1 brought up some controversial stuff that should see the light of day.... and then there's the Star appearing ..... It's all good .... I just have had so very much going on lately I haven't been able to get on the computer with my thumper in hand as I need to be to answer....

This is going to be fun!!!

[hotcoffee]

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[1-12] The future rejection of Jesus by Israel and his acceptance by the Gentiles are retrojected into this scene of the narrative..

IMHO... you might have something there.... but I would prefer to think of this as the first of the gentile interactions with the Messiah.

Matthew seemed to make a point that Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea. According to the notes in my thumper, there was a town of Bethlehem much closer to Nazareth where Jesus grew up. But Matthew points out that Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea emphasizing King David's lineage. The Jewish nation was expecting the Messiah to be born in Bethlehem and from David's family. Matthew made that lineage clear.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[1] In the days of King Herod: Herod reigned from 37 to 4 B.C.

There were a lot of Kings named Herod. The King Herod here was not a Jew. He was appointed by the Roman Senate. He is described as ruthless, murdered his wife, three sons, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, uncle and others.. not to mention all the little Jewish children..... He did, however, love to build things.... one of which was the temple in Jerusalem which was completed after he was long gone...

Originally Posted by Radiant1

Magi: originally a designation of the Persian priestly caste, the word became used of those who were regarded as having more than human knowledge. Matthew's magi are astrologers. .

Astrologers... Astronomers more likely.... I like to think of them as the nerds.. By the way... I've never seen in the Bible where it says there were 3 of them... only that there were 3 gifts... guess that's where the 3 comes from.... another Hollywood fictional thing I guess.. One thing we agree on... they came from the east [Persia is east of Jerusalem]. They would have been wealthy as well, possessing such fine gifts.

To me it also seems that they might have also been traders from Persia. They would have navigated their routes by the stars as well. And.... if you go back to Genesis 37:25 The caravan on it's way to Egypt included camels that were loaded with spices, balm and myrrh...

My thumper seems to say since they asked for the "King of the Jews", Matthew was pointing out the fact they were gentiles.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[2] We saw his star: it was a common ancient belief that a new star appeared at the time of a ruler's birth. Matthew also draws upon the Old Testament story of Balaam, who had prophesied that "A star shall advance from Jacob" (Numbers 24:17), though there the star means not an astral phenomenon but the king himself..

Here's where we differ. To assume that "the star doesn't mean an astral phenomenon but the king himself".... just doesn't sit right with me.

God created the heavens and the earth. He hung the stars... it only makes sense to me that when His only son was born in Bethlehem to save us all from our sins, that He would place the most uncommon star of all above the city of His only Son.

In the NIV verse 2 says "We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him" and verse 7 says "Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared."

According to the notes in my thumper... it says some scholars have identified it with the conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn....

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[4] Herod's consultation with the chief priests and scribes has some similarity to a Jewish legend about the child Moses in which the "sacred scribes" warn Pharaoh about the imminent birth of one who will deliver Israel from Egypt and the king makes plans to destroy him. Matthew 2:11: Cf Psalm 72:10, 15; Isaiah 60:6. These Old Testament texts led to the interpretation of the magi as kings..

Verse 12 says "And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route."

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[11] Psalm 72:10; Psalm 72:15; Isaiah 60:6; These Old Testament texts led to the interpretation of the magi as Kings..

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[13-23] Biblical and nonbiblical traditions about Moses are here applied to the child Jesus, though the dominant Old Testament type is not Moses but Israel (Matthew 2:15)..

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[13] Flee to Egypt: Egypt was a traditional place of refuge for those fleeing from danger in Palestine (see 1 Kings 11:40; Jeremiah 26:21), but the main reason why the child is to be taken to Egypt is that he may relive the Exodus experience of Israel..

That I just didn't buy at first.... but my thumper notes also says something about it....

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[15] The fulfillment citation is taken from Hosea 11:1. Israel, God's son, was called out of Egypt at the time of the Exodus; Jesus, the Son of God, will similarly be called out of that land in a new exodus. The father-son relationship between God and the nation is set in a higher key. Here the son is not a group adopted as "son of God," but the child who, as conceived by the holy Spirit, stands in unique relation to God. He is son of David and of Abraham, of Mary and of Joseph, but, above all, of God..

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[18] Jeremiah 31:15 portrays Rachel, wife of the patriarch Jacob, weeping for her children taken into exile at the time of the Assyrian invasion of the northern kingdom (722-21 B.C.). Bethlehem was traditionally identified with Ephrath, the place near which Rachel was buried (see Genesis 35:19; 48:7), and the mourning of Rachel is here applied to her lost children of a later age. Ramah: about six miles north of Jerusalem. The lamentation of Rachel is so great as to be heard at a far distance..

Can you imagine what it would have been like to hear the mothers and fathers of those slaughtered babies sobbing in the quiet night air? What a horrible time that must have been. Herod was a horrible horrible horrible person.... he loved his station in life so much that he would slaughter innocent children to avoid loosing it to the real King of the Jews.

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[20] For those who sought the child's life are dead: Moses, who had fled from Egypt because the Pharaoh sought to kill him (see Exodus 2:15), was told to return there, "for all the men who sought your life are dead" (Exodus 4:19)..

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[22] With the agreement of the emperor Augustus, Archelaus received half of his father's kingdom, including Judea, after Herod's death. He had the title "ethnarch" (i.e., "ruler of a nation") and reigned from 4 B.C. to A.D. 6..

Originally Posted by Radiant1

[23] Nazareth . . . he shall be called a Nazorean: the tradition of Jesus' residence in Nazareth was firmly established, and Matthew sees it as being in accordance with the foreannounced plan of God. The town of Nazareth is not mentioned in the Old Testament, and no such prophecy can be found there. The vague expression "through the prophets" may be due to Matthew's seeing a connection between Nazareth and certain texts in which there are words with a remote similarity to the name of that town. Some such Old Testament texts are Isaiah 11:1 where the Davidic king of the future is called "a bud" (neser) that shall blossom from the roots of Jesse, and Judges 13:5, 7 where Samson, the future deliverer of Israel from the Philistines, is called one who shall be consecrated (a nazir) to God..

So now we end with Jesus, Mary, and Joseph in Nazareth. a little town in the middle of nowhere....

My thumper says that in Jesus' day "Nazarene" was virtually a synonym for "despised". What a place for the Son of God to grow up.....