From Missionary Bible Translator to Agnostic

[supersurfer]

What a great link
From Missionary Bible Translator to Agnostic

Originally Posted by Ken Daniels

1. Purpose of this testimonial

Whenever I have shared the story of my deconversion from Christianity with Christians, I have been met with various combinations of fascination, surprise and disapproval. There is often an assumption that if I had embraced a slightly different brand of Christianity, I could have avoided coming down this path. It was because of my wrong ideas about Christianity, or because I wasn't truly a believer in the first place, or because I did not seek God earnestly enough, that I ended up abandoning the faith. Sometimes when I provide reasons for my doubts, the interrogator will summarily dismiss them and ask, "So what's the real reason you left Christianity?" Most believers want to know what it is that brought me to this point. Though they do not always express it openly, I often sense their conviction that my disbelief must stem from an inward moral flaw they would like to uncover.

The purpose of this testimonial is to open a window to my life as a Christian and my reasons for leaving the faith, allowing others to evaluate the authenticity of my former faith and the motivations for my doubts. To that end, I have liberally sprinkled my story with a healthy--some might say excessive--dose of personal prayers, correspondence and reflection. My hope is that this will help some of my family members and friends understand, if not appreciate, how I have come to where I am. Additionally, I would like to provide encouragement for those who recognize many of the problems of Christianity but who struggle to give wing to their doubts. I do not believe this will cause committed believers to leave the faith, but it is my hope that it will aid those who have already begun to question their faith.

Based on the words of a Christian friend with whom I've been meeting monthly to discuss our respective beliefs, a case can be made for the effectiveness of a testimonial-style approach versus a context-free treatise on a subject as personal as faith:

The topics we cover in our discussions sometimes make me question my faith. But what has a greater impact on it and brings deeper questions and pain to my heart is when I hear you say that you have sought God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and not found Him.[1]

A chronological recounting of my life story provides the framework for this document. I have interspersed editorial reflections of limited length at various points in the story line. For extended arguments in support of my views, please read the appendices in the companion document. For those with limited reading time who simply want to understand my journey, this testimonial will suffice, but those who wish to engage in written or oral debate with me are requested to read both documents in their entirety. Depending on how many responses I receive, I may or may not be able to engage with everyone, but I will make it a priority to answer at least family members and close friends.

There are several flavors of agnosticism, so I'll take the opportunity up front to clear up any uncertainty as to my present position. I consider myself to be an atheistic-leaning agnostic, meaning that I suspect there is no God, while leaving open the possibility that God does exist.

Though I have thought about undertaking this project for some time, the immediate inspiration for taking it up now has come from my recent reading of a quite similar story by Kendall Hobbs.[2] I highly recommend it to anyone who finds my testimony in the least interesting.

Read his story at the link

[2ndAmendment]

Only a great link for those trying to lead people from faith in Christ.

There is a lesson here for Christians. Apparently this person had head knowledge and not a personal relationship with Jesus. There are lots of people that are church goers but not really Christians. They may call themselves Christians because they go to a Christian church, but more likely they will identify themselves as Baptist, Catholic, Pentecostal, or other denomination rather than Christian. It is the personal relationship with the risen Christ that matters. Even those that may know Jesus may fall from grace; I know this is contrary to some main stream doctrine, but it is scriptural. The apostasy (falling away) is prophesied.

1 Timothy 4:1-3

¹But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, ²by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

³men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[supersurfer]

Originally Posted by 2ndAmendment

Only a great link for those trying to lead people from faith in Christ.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by 2A

There is a lesson here for Christians. Apparently this person had head knowledge and not a personal relationship with Jesus.

I believe that he conveys very well that he had a personal relationship with "Jesus" and not just head knowledge. It would help if you read it though.

Ken started typing out his prayer back when he was in college and has included many of them in his testimony.

The below sounds pretty personal to me, but is good for your cause if you discount it.

Originally Posted by Ken Daniels

Father God, thank you for continuing to reveal yourself to me and for reaffirming my confidence that you indeed designed all of creation. How could I ever have doubted a year ago that you existed? What got into me? How did I presume to account for the existence of matter and all the interacting physical laws without recourse to Someone outside of matter, time and the physical laws? Given that I can be assured of your existence and interest in my life, why do I ever go through a day without giving you my best, without praising you with all my soul, without confiding in you all my dreams and fears, without invoking your aid on behalf of family, friends, and those who are serving you around the world?

Originally Posted by Ken Daniels

Father God, God of all creation, the one who made me, the one who loves me more than anyone else, the one who desires my well-being, I come to you today with a very heavy heart. Or more precisely, a knot in my stomach. Once again, it appears to me that all I have been taught about the inspiration of the Bible is false. Deep down inside me, I have a very, very strong suspicion that the Bible is human and not divine through and through. You know the passages I struggle with. I can't seem to reconcile my conception of your nature with the way your character is portrayed in the Bible, particularly in the Old Testament. Where do I get this sense of moral injustice when I read about how a master is not to be punished for beating his slave as long as the slave doesn't die, because the slave is his property? There seems to be within me a moral law that stands in judgment of the Bible. Is this internal moral law a product of my culture that is to be submitted to the higher moral law of the Bible, or vice versa? Why does the Old Testament incessantly violate my idea of right and wrong? Why does it regard women in such a poor light? Why are the people of Yahweh supposed to wipe out men, women and children but are allowed to take the virgins for themselves? Why are the sacrifices offered in the tabernacle called food for Yahweh? Why does Yahweh need sacrifices anyway? Can't he simply forgive those who ask for his forgiveness, just as we humans forgive each other? Why do some people get zapped instantly for touching the ark inadvertently while Aaron, Moses' brother, gets off scot-free after making a golden calf for the people to worship, and then he becomes the leader of the priesthood and the recipient of the best of all the offerings of the people? Why do women suspected of adultery have to go through some bizarre ordeal of drinking bitter water and seeing their womb swell and thigh waste away, while no provision is made for women to test their husbands for the same offense? God, the weight of all these troublesome passages, and many more, add up in my mind to foolishness. Or at least an attribution of ancient cultural ideas on the God of all creation. The list goes on: the Bible's endorsement of polygamy, the magic of the striped sticks causing sheep's offspring to be striped, the assertion that camels don't have split hoofs, the mixed use of round numbers and exact numbers in Numbers to justify paying redemption money to Aaron's family, Yahweh's command to hamstring the horses, the barbaric brutality of the Israelites in their holy war, the contradictory teachings on divorce, the many little historical contradictions, the attempt to explain language diversification through a "how-the-leopard-got-its-spots" Tower of Babel story, the conception of a young earth which is clearly unattested to by the facts, the fact that Christians have been unable to agree on so many doctrines while reading the same Bible that seems to say one thing in one place and another in another place, the long process of canonizing the Bible, the vengeful attitudes ascribed to Yahweh when his wayward people are attacked by their enemies, the sacrifices in Ezekiel's temple that has yet to be built, the vengeance Samson took on his betrayers under the influence of the Spirit of the Yahweh, the exclusively physical punishments and rewards promised for the Israelites with no mention of heaven until late in the writing of the Old Testament, and on and on and on.

How much of this am I expected to absorb and put into the filing cabinet labeled "troublesome, contradictory or unjust but accept it by faith anyway"? How much tension can a soul take? Why does it seem like I'm just about the only one in my circle of friends that struggles with these issues as deeply as I do? Am I warped, proud, or rebellious? Are you blinding my eyes because I haven't spent enough time with you in prayer lately? Or are the things I'm beginning to suspect--that the Bible is not divinely inspired--true after all? This is not just an academic exercise. The direction of the rest of my life, if not eternity, depends on it. I know that even if the Bible is true, you don't mind my bringing these questions before you, since the Psalms record similarly piercing doubts that David experienced. Father God, take me in your arms just as I would take David or Philip or Corinne [our children] in my arms in a time of trouble, and comfort me with words of assurance and love and healing. I know you are my creator. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you made me and love me. I ask you to have compassion on me and lead me to the truth. I ask you to search me heart and reveal to me anything that displeases you and that stands in the way of my finding the truth about the Bible. Open up my eyes so I can see my sin as you see it, and give me the courage and strength to put it away. I confess that I have been detached from you and my family and friends. I have been living in a world of my own mind, excluding those who are dearest to me. I have been objecting to the inequality of men and women expressed in the Bible, yet I've effectively been reinforcing it in my own marriage by leaving Charlene to do all the household work. Forgive me, I pray, and help me to get back on the right footing. Father, if I could only sit before you and talk with you as a man talks with another man, if only I could ask you what you had in mind when you made humanity and allowed so many different religions to take root and lead to so many confusing, contradictory and sometimes harmful paths. Why are people so gullible to believe so many contradictory things? Muslims believe what they do because they've been exposed to Islamic teachings and social influences, and it seems no different from why Christians are Christians. If no one major religion is the truth, then what is? Do I have to make up a minor religion to get at the truth? Heaven forbid! In my opinion there are already too many religions. Oh, Father, I don't want to be impertinent. I don't want to reject Jesus as the Son of God if he really is the Son of God or equivalent to God. But if he isn't the Son of God, then I don't want to spend my life in Africa proclaiming he is. What do I do, Lord, what do I do? Comfort my soul, Father. Thank you. Thank you for coming over me with your presence and that indescribable peace that assures me of your care for me. You have answered my prayer to take me in your arms and comfort me. I love you, I love you, I love you.

[mAlice]

Thanks for the post supersurfer. I'll read it tonight when I have more time.

[supersurfer]

I spent about 4 hours or more reading through it yesterday.

[2ndAmendment]

Originally Posted by supersurfer

Thanks!

I believe that he conveys very well that he had a personal relationship with "Jesus" and not just head knowledge. It would help if you read it though.

Ken started typing out his prayer back when he was in college and has included many of them in his testimony.

The below sounds pretty personal to me, but is good for your cause if you discount it.

Sad for him and all those, if they have really tasted of the Holy Spirit and then fell away.

Hebrews 6:4-8

⁴For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,

⁵and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,

⁶and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

⁷For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;

⁸but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by supersurfer

What a great link
From Missionary Bible Translator to Agnostic

Shouldn't this be in the Anti-Religion Forum?

[mAlice]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Shouldn't this be in the Anti-Religion Forum?

No. I'm not a religious person, but I still enjoy reading different views ON religion. Thank you.

[Toxick]

Originally Posted by elaine

No. I'm not a religious person, but I still enjoy reading different views ON religion. Thank you.

Aren't you one of the ones who flipped out before, because someone brought up Jesus outside of the Religion forum?

[mAlice]

Originally Posted by Toxick

Aren't you one of the ones who flipped out before, because someone brought up Jesus outside of the Religion forum?

Are you looking for an argument?