St. Mary's - Business Development/ The Slow Train

[darkclown]

Does anyone else have a problem with the slow pace our county has taken in allowing business development? Its alarming that with a population that is growing exponentially and a desperate need for services for the community, there doesn't seem to be much interest in giving the business community any incentive to come here. Thus we are left with strip malls that are half empty and a community that must drive over 45 minutes to see a movie.

I certainly understand that there should be some preservation of the local landscape, but if someone would look at intelligent development of the commercial areas then there would be much less of a problem there. I find it very troubling that a developer would go to the length of clearing massive amounts of land (like at First Colony) only to find that no businesses will move here because of the enormous tax burden immediately placed on them. The problem has nothing to do with demographics..... we are here now (you can’t go backwards unless PAX was to close which it is not), but much more to do with an unwillingness for change on the part of some of our commissioners. I hope that our government here realizes the problem before its too late. We could end up with half empty strip malls filled with unproductive businesses all the way to Ridge. How about taking a page out of Bowie's playbook? They figured it out and really curbed the development problem!

A great example is the development of a real mall here. We already have our "business center" encircling the base! It would be of such benefit to the community here (Waldorf is not around the block), and we could contain the unyielding strip mall expansion in the process, which would ultimately protect more lands from unnecessary development.

 

[Ken King]

“Does anyone else have a problem with the slow pace our county has taken in allowing business development?” Is it an issue of allowing development or an issue of being able to get a developer or company to take the risk? While I agree that the population is growing I don’t see it being large enough yet to draw the necessary major businesses into the area that are needed to “anchor” an endeavor like a mall. Are tax incentives enough to get someone to bring their “chain” down here or do they look at the population and economic factors to see if it is potentially large enough to provide the clientele necessary to make a profit?

While I agree that there should be “smart planning” I’m just not sure what that is. As you seem to have strong feelings about this maybe you should try to get onto the Planning Commission (I think it is still a volunteer group). Or at least attend the meetings to get your voice heard. You might want to call Jon Grimm, the Director, at 301-475-4449 to find out how you can best serve the county. Their website is located at http://www.co.saint-marys.md.us/planzone/ and they have a link to the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance recently passed and the meeting schedule.

 

[darkclown]

I heard they backed out because...

the business taxes down here are astronomical in comparison to other MD counties and that the developer also wanted far too much for the land. That's the other problem we have here which does not help us, land baron's that are putting the squeeze on anyone who looks to take their business here. Also, the thought processes put into development by the CCs seem to be non-existent. Look at Chancellor's Run Road, its a complete nightmare.... every single day. I'll end with this thought ..... how many gas stations do we need? We are beginning look like a place I passed through once, Barstow, CA., gas stations as far as the eye could see.

 

[Heretic]

Part of the reason the taxes are so high is because all of the developements keep building along RT 235 and they are constantly adding stoplights and having to widen the road to increase the throughput.

If 235 didnt have all of those stripmalls on it, it wouldnt require all of those stoplights and we could probably do with a 2 lane road instead of 4 or more lanes. For Christs sake the capital beltway is 4 lanes and we have no where near the volume of traffic that it does.

You can't blame everything on the county comissioners, part of the blame must lie on the residents for electing them, ignoring the inevitable that growth would come to St Marys.

In my opinion 235 should be a through road only and any developement should be on roads perpendicular or parallel to it.

 

[darkclown]

I agree with......

the fact that more develiopment should happen west of 235, but its too late now. We still need to create more E to W transit. As far as the taxes, when I spoke with one of the comissioners about it he told me ALL of the money to pay for 235 is coming from the state, not the county.

 

[chuckster]

qoute:
Posted by darkclown

"The problem has nothing to do with demographics..... we are here now (you can’t go backwards unless PAX was to close which it is not), but much more to do with an unwillingness for change on the part of some of our commissioners. I hope that our government here realizes the problem before its too late. We could end up with half empty strip malls filled with unproductive businesses all the way to Ridge".

I think that a large part of the problem is the demographics. Looking at the census, the population of St Mary's is still below 100,000 and the same in Calvert. What everyone expected to happen with the base infact did not. Some people decided not to transfer here for their jobs and some people decided to drive from DC and VA rather than move. Everyone, including the Board of Comissioners, was betting "on the come"
So what has happened is a bunch of new businesses, both Big Box and small, trying to get the same business. We will never see a Mall here in St Mary's. Businesses are starting to wise up to what has happened here and are going to other locations.
The movie theater was strictly a decission made on the demographics and that there would not be enough people to support a multi-plex movie. Red Lobster and Olive Garden have said the same thing. You can only cut the pie in so many pieces.
For me this has worked out great. When I purchased my franchise the corporation saw that the demographics of St Marys would not support the business. Because of this I was able to purchase Charles and Calvert County with St Mary's for the lower franchise fee.
On the other hand, companies such as WAWA and Sheetz are going to do fine and continue to grow in this county. Two more WAWA's are going up as we sit here and look at these posts. One will be at the Western Steer location and the other at ADF Bingo. They have surrounded the base and willget the business because of their locations. I feel bad for Burch. He has been here for years but I think even he has seen the light. The old Burch Mart by gate 1 has been sold twice in only a few months.
Even Super Fresh saw the light and realized that it would be cheaper for them to close the stores and pay the rent and not fight this up-hill fight for the same customer. With close to 14 super markets in this county and the low margins that these stores work on, I don't blame them for doing what they did. Once again, you can only cut the pie in so many pieces.
We are becoming a county of large corp stores, with a food court(Rt 235), surrounded by convenience stores and gas stations. I don't think that we are going to see much more business development in this county.

 

[Tonio]

I think the glut of empty commercial spaces sends a bad message to retailers looking to come here. Look at Wildewood Center and San Souci.

I've been told by a few business owners that San Souci's problem is the high rents. Over on the Post Office side, I think a half-dozen restaurants have failed there in the past 10 years. That shopping center desperately needs an anchor store.

Anyone been to Colonial Beach, Va.? I've been there a few times and I'm amazed that the town has survived this long. There's a shopping center that's virtually empty except for a Dollar General and a hardware store. The parking lot looks like Omaha Beach after D-Day. Is this the future for shopping centers like St. Mary's Square, Millison Plaza and San Souci?

 

[chuckster]

The rents at both of these locations are very reasonable. Both cennters are more than willing to work with reailers to help get them going. But there are a couple of problems with going into one of the larger centers. Seems like the "Big Boys" who lease from these centers dictate what can come in the center after them or what kind of business they can do. Don't look for any pool tables in Wildewood because Outback will not allow them. You would not beleive the list of restrictions that these big companies put on other stores.
The restaurants in San Soucci seem to be doing great now. Just needed the right concept and management. Look for a new anchor in that center soon.
Also keep in mind that some of these empty stores are still paying rent such as Super Fresh, CVS and Eckerds. They will have to pay them until the units are rented or sub-leased.
There is always more to the story.

 

[Tonio]

I believe that getting more chain restaurants in St. Mary's is not necessarily a good thing. It would be shame if Damon's or Ruby Tuesdays put places like Lenny's or The Roost out of business. That could happen because the chains have the advantage of name recognition and advertising resources. That's a shame, because it really ought to be about the food and the service.

When my wife and I travel, we try out the locally owned restaurants whenever possible. What's the point of traveling if you eat the same food you can get at home? We also try the small regional chains, like Chuy's in Austin.

 

[darkclown]

I completely disagree about demographics

I completely disagree with the notion that demographics has had any significant part in the development in this county. Its more than just Saint Marys, its Calvert as well... up to Prince Fredrick there is really nothing! In the time I have been here I have seen massive housing development throughout the middle part of our county. Not only that, but there has been a constant growth of commercial business adjacent to the base!
I spoke with some folks 'in the know" and I can tell you, Hoyts did not make their decision not to come here based on demographics, but because of the high price the developer wanted for the land. Like our outragous home prices, commercial land development prices are through the roof. Businesses should not be expected to pay prices as if this were downtown Arlington or Fairfax. Look at our home prices, they are extremely bloated. I have friends living on the outskirts of DC (Bristow, etc) who have had to pay considerably less for their homes (20-30K) then we do here for a comparable house!
So anyway, what are we getting? A BJs...... yet another business we really dont need. Speaking of real needs and as a good example of what I am talking about... both locations where Superfresh once was still remain vacant to this day. This has been terrible. There is not enough capacity to handle the volume. Giant has so much business they can barely keep up.
The fact is that between lower Calvert and Saint Mary's there is plenty of need and the businesses must be given better financial conditions to come here and meet our growing purchasing and service needs!

 

[darkclown]

I have lived in many a big city where local businesses survived when development reached their little corner of "the burbs". Its all relative to the quality of the business, be it restaurant or whatever. If its good, people will continue to go there! Look at HG Gass, that little place has great food!

 

[chuckster]

darkclown,,, anyway you cut it, between the two counties we are still beloww 200,000 people. Giant is doing well because 4 Super Fresh markets closed(plus their location doesn't hurt) Even if you take the pop of 100,000 in St Marys and divide that by the number of markets that were here, 14, you only come up with a possible 7100 customers/store. With the margins they work on no wonder Super Fresh went out.
When you get the chance count the number of similar businesses and divide the population by it. The numbers don't always work. At that is saying that everyone shops in St Marys.
There will be more restaurants going out or changing, just like other businesses. When you invest in a business that HAS TO DO A MINIMUM of $2,000,000 in sales just to break even, it won't take long to figure out if you are going to make it.

 

[SmallTown]

Businesses go under because of one reason, they are not competitive. I for one enjoy seeing the "big stores" and chain places because they already have set standards that they follow, where as many of the local businesses don't really have set standards because there was no need to. As consumers, we should all be happy to see more and more businesses come here. As competition grows, quality becomes better. If this puts out other businesses, it is because they did not adjust to the times. These big box stores and chains that people gripe about were once small stores looking to make a living. They have since learned how to to grow and be more profitable. Local businesses here can do the same, if they want to stay alive.

Looking at current business is not always a good indicator of how well a new business will do. I have never before seen a line at 7-11 to get coffee, but I have never been in a line fewer than 4 people at Starbucks. And this is also an indication that people are willing to pay a premium for something they like. The local theatre here stinks.. That is why nobody likes to go there. Not because of price or too many kids or whatever excuses people try to use. Everyone I know drives at least a hour from here to see a movie. The theatres elsewhere may be a little more expensive, and of course the costs of getting there costs more. But people are willing to pay a premium for something they like. A theatre here would do tremendous business just from the people who currently travel over an hour to see a movie.. Throw in the ones who actually patron the lexington park theatre as well as those who refuse to go to LP and also refuse to drive an hour. Combined you have quite a base for a new theatre. If a theatre were to look at all of these factors, it would be a very poor business decision NOT to come here.

The same goes for a bookstore. Nothing against Bay Books, but the few times I have been there, there has always been at least one customer asking if they had a certain book and the clerk saying no, but we can order it for you.. Thats nice.. if I wanted that, i would order from Books A Million online and save a lot of money. I like to sit down with books and maybe thumb through it or read the inside covers to be sure it is something I truly want to read. Again, everyone I know travels to waldorf or annapolis to buy books, or get them online. Keep all of these people in town. Give them what they want/need. This is what ECONOMIC development is all about. Forcing people out of town to fullfill their basic needs is simply ridiculous.

 

[chuckster]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Businesses go under because of one reason, they are not competitive. I for one enjoy seeing the "big stores" and chain places because they already have set standards that they follow, where as many of the local businesses don't really have set standards because there was no need to. As consumers, we should all be happy to see more and more businesses come here. As competition grows, quality becomes better. If this puts out other businesses, it is because they did not adjust to the times. These big box stores and chains that people gripe about were once small stores looking to make a living. They have since learned how to to grow and be more profitable. Local businesses here can do the same, if they want to stay alive.

I do not beleive that it was Sam Waltons intention to put other small businesses out just to be successfull. But that is another issue. Being competive is great! Being rediculous is not. Because of the contracts that companies like WalMart have with companies such as Coke, the little or small business can't compete. It is actually cheaper for a store owner to purchase their Coke at WalMart than it is to purchase it from a Coke Distributor.
Quality becomes better???? Not really. We are all hiring the same people. We used to have a few restaurants with ok service. Now we have a bunch of restaurants with crappy service. When is the last time you shopped in a store like Penny's and couldn't get waited on? Me pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee?? Not likely.
Standards are set ,,, I agree with that. But it is trying to get the employee to stick to those standards that is the hard part. I can hear it now... "Fire them and get new employees" Easier said than done in Southern Maryland, and the employees know that. The girl that waited on you at Ruby's tonight will propably be the samr girl waiting on you at IHOP tomorrow.
This from Vernon Gray's commentary "Economist Thomas Muller, in testimony before the United States House of Representatives Committee on Small Business, a WalMart paired with a full-line grocery store, a so called Super WalMart, open 24 hours is equivalent to about 100 typical smaller retail stores. But this Super Store does not employ an equivalent nimber of people or provide the same economic benefits to the community."

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm not sure what the problem is. To me it's a simple question of supply and demand. Why would someone buy from a Mom 'n Pop if they can get the same item at Target cheaper?

Also, if some of these local restaurants would clean their kitchens and dining rooms once in a while, they might not lose business to Appleby's, etc. I won't name any names here but we've all been in these locally owned restaurants that could use a good scrubbing, not to mention their lack of parking and surly waitstaff. Then you go into Ruby Tuesday and it's all nice and clean, plenty of parking and a well-lit exterior.

If small businesses want to compete, they must offer something that you can't get at the chains. Powder Mountain is a good example - Steve and Jody partake in every sport they sell equipment for so they're in a good position to help you choose what's right for you. The kid at the Sports Authority or wherever isn't going to do that.

Small businesses don't have to compete on price - they can compete on service, because that's what the big boxes lack.

 

[chuckster]

vraiblonde,,,, well said

 

[darkclown]

I still say....

The problem here is one of mismanaged development, I say that if the comissioners could get that under control things would be better for all. When all is said and done after November's elections, maybe we can look to better management strategies in the county.
I for one still believe a mall serving St Mary's and lower Calvert would be of significant benefit. Also, lets get some of these store fronts filled, rejuvenate downtown Lexington Park. There's really a lot to be done!

If not, I at least hope someone in the upper management at Loew's Theaters realizes that our little theater down here is due for a major overhaul! I have seen two movies in it in the last two weeks and its hard to keep your feet from slipping on the floor!
Ewwwwww

 

[darkclown]

Originally posted by chuckster
...anyway you cut it, between the two counties we are still below 200,000 people. Giant is doing well because 4 Super Fresh markets closed(plus their location doesn't hurt) Even if you take the pop of 100,000 in St Marys and divide that by the number of markets that were here, 14, you only come up with a possible 7100 customers/store. With the margins they work on no wonder Super Fresh went out.

As you stated, there were 14 supermarkets here. This is no longer the case and it shows in the long lines endured at Giant every time I go. I also think you must include the thousands of folks living in lower Calvert and Charles Counties, people from up toward DC who come down every day, not to forget tourism. To take a raw number puts the calculation off balance. Grocery stores are also only one example of the problem. There are many more..... Lowe's & Loew's for starters.
Superfresh did NOT go out of business here, they went out of business almost everywhere. They would NOT have built two brand new and large stores in middle SMC if they had not deemed that they could make it.
were

 

[SmallTown]

As far as supermarkets go, there are only two in the area that I even consider going to. The Giant at First Colony and Food Lion in Callaway. It has gotten to the point that we go late at night to Giant to avoid waiting in a LONG line to checkout. The new Food Lion in nice, but painfully small. The others in the area. I don't like going to the Food Lion in St. Marys Square, even during the day... Nasty nasty area.. No wonder there are cops sitting in there every day. McKays.. Not bad. A little expensive and could be cleaned up a little bit. Not a terrible location, but doesn't have the nice clean feel I like with a Grocery Store. The Food Lion at K-Mart.. I feel like I need a shower whenever I leave there (Kinda like Wal-Mart, but that is a different subject).

With regards to SuperFresh, they had been in this area for quite some time. I'm sure they would not have spent millions of dollars to move one of their stores and build a new one if there was not a demand for it.

There was a mention towards Starbucks with "Me pay $5.00 for a cup of coffee?? Not likely." Which is completely acceptable. But many people here feel if THEY don't like something, then no one should and thus shouldn't be brought here.

As far as Olive Garden goes, it would do GREAT down here.. I mean, there is sooo much competition here for good Italian food.. The italian places here are just glorified pizza shops, and the place in Solomons is nice but definately a different atmosphere than Olive Garden. When the Outback Steakhouse was going in, I actually heard someone say "We don't need this place,we have Western Steer!".. And they ACTUALLY meant it.. Scary..

And as for chains putting local businesses out, I havn't seen Taco Bell drive out Monterey

 

[RoseRed]

Originally posted by SmallTown
When the Outback Steakhouse was going in, I actually heard someone say "We don't need this place,we have Western Steer!".. And they ACTUALLY meant it.. Scary..

Well, Western Steer is now gone. Outback is okay, but I have had problems there with service and food.