What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
"Richard Land, the head of the gigantic (16.3 million-member) Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission and its most influential political operative, has dived headlong into what has become a favorite Baptist parlor game: What exactly is a Mormon? It's a question that has special significance right now, since it relates to how religious conservatives regard the Mormon candidate Mitt Romney.

On Wednesday, the EthicsDaily.com newswire, which is written by and for Baptists with views more liberal than the SBC's, reported that Land, expanding on remarks he made last week at a gathering of political conservatives, told Al Hunt on his Bloomberg TV show Political Capital that he considers the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormons know themselves, as "being the fourth Abrahamic Religion," in addition to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of which trace roots of race or belief back to the patriarch Abraham."


What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer - TIME
 

Starman3000m

New Member
"Richard Land, the head of the gigantic (16.3 million-member) Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission and its most influential political operative, has dived headlong into what has become a favorite Baptist parlor game: What exactly is a Mormon? It's a question that has special significance right now, since it relates to how religious conservatives regard the Mormon candidate Mitt Romney.

On Wednesday, the EthicsDaily.com newswire, which is written by and for Baptists with views more liberal than the SBC's, reported that Land, expanding on remarks he made last week at a gathering of political conservatives, told Al Hunt on his Bloomberg TV show Political Capital that he considers the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormons know themselves, as "being the fourth Abrahamic Religion," in addition to Judaism, Christianity and Islam, all of which trace roots of race or belief back to the patriarch Abraham."


What Is Mormonism? A Baptist Answer - TIME

OK, nhboy, since you opened up this thread, please give us your opinion on the article. For example, do you agree or do you disagree that the Mormons are " the fourth Abrahamic Religion" ???
 

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
OK, nhboy, since you opened up this thread, please give us your opinion on the article. For example, do you agree or do you disagree that the Mormons are " the fourth Abrahamic Religion" ???

Not being a theologian , I don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an “Abrahamic Religion" as Land is supposed to have said. Biema believes there is a considerable difference of opinion within the Christan theologian community which is hindering there ability to decide a secular dilemma, whether or not to endorse Mitt Romney. If what Land posits as his belief is true (that Mormonism is an Abrahamic religion) it may well be an attempt on his part to formulate a religious basis for interfaith understanding, or it may be as pragmatic as Biema eludes to. I think the latter.
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Not being a theologian , I don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an “Abrahamic Religion" as Land is supposed to have said. Biema believes there is a considerable difference of opinion within the Christan theologian community which is hindering there ability to decide a secular dilemma, whether or not to endorse Mitt Romney. If what Land posits as his belief is true (that Mormonism is an Abrahamic religion) it may well be an attempt on his part to formulate a religious basis for interfaith understanding, or it may be as pragmatic as Biema eludes to. I think the latter.

Fair response, nhboy, because you have been honest enough to say that you aren't a theologian and therefore "...don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an Abrahamic Religion."

IMO, the article points out only a few of the major discrepancies between New Testament Christianity and Mormon theology about who Jesus Christ is.
The fact is, when compared to the New Testament teachings, one will see that Mormonism is one of many other religions who claim to be "Christian" but in fact are considered a pseudo-Christian denomination that is teaching another Jesus and another way to Salvation that is in total disagreement with the New Testament accounts.

Now, the main question that has been raised in the article is this: Is Mormonism the "fourth Abrahamic religion" ?

The answer is NO, because there is no such thing as an "Abrahamic Religion" per sé. If there were, then that would mean that there are yet eight (8) more religions that could spring up and be called "Abrahamic Religions" by tracing themselves all back to one of the other remaining tribes of Israel, of which there are twelve total.

The clarification, therefore should not be what constitutes an "Abrahamic Religion" but what constitutes the "Abrahamic Covenant" between God and mankind. Yes, there is a major difference between the two.

I could explain this further, but will wait to give others a chance to provide their input into this discussion. In the end, whether theologian or not, you will be able to see the difference between Mormonism and New Testament teachings of the Abrahamic Covenant and how it will disqualify Mormonism as being of the "True Christian Faith."
 
Last edited:

nhboy

Ubi bene ibi patria
Fair response, nhboy, because you have been honest enough to say that you aren't a theologian and therefore "...don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an Abrahamic Religion."

IMO, the article points out only a few of the major discrepancies between New Testament Christianity and Mormon theology about who Jesus Christ is.
The fact is, when compared to the New Testament teachings, one will see that Mormonism is one of many other religions who claim to be "Christian" but in fact are considered a pseudo-Christian denomination that is teaching another Jesus and another way to Salvation that is in total disagreement with the New Testament accounts.

Now, the main question that has been raised in the article is this: Is Mormonism the "fourth Abrahamic religion" ?

The answer is NO, because there is no such thing as an "Abrahamic Religion" per sé. If there were, then that would mean that there are yet eight (8) more religions that could spring up and be called "Abrahamic Religions" by tracing themselves all back to one of the other remaining tribes of Israel, of which there are twelve total.

The clarification, therefore should not be what constitutes an "Abrahamic Religion" but what constitutes the "Abrahamic Covenant" between God and mankind. Yes, there is a major difference between the two.

I could explain this further, but will wait to give others a chance to provide their input into this discussion. In the end, whether theologian or not, you will be able to see the difference between Mormonism and New Testament teachings of the Abrahamic Covenant and how it will disqualify Mormonism as being of the "True Christian Faith."

I find it quite arrogant for one to characterize my response to the question as being “fair” because some unknown entity deems it as being honest. Its almost as if you felt a need to justify your comment or perhaps you felt that you wouldn't get an honest reply.

Whereas you seem to see only the scriptural argument brought out in the article, to me the article more clearly points out that it is most probably mere political maneuvering on Land's part. This I feel is dishonest at best. In my view, he should keep his scriptural arguments between himself and other theologians within the community, not present it as a political issue to his congregation.

As Biema says, “The Abrahamic remark can be understood as an impressive act of political equipoise: being less snarky about Romney's status without letting him totally off the hook. At some future point in time, perhaps Land will come back and work out the theological niceties.”

Because I couldn't care less about Land's theory, and inasmuch as the remainder of your response consists of rebutting his views, may I recommend you address your concerns directly to him where it may do the most good.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Fair response, nhboy, because you have been honest enough to say that you aren't a theologian and therefore "...don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an Abrahamic Religion."

IMO, the article points out only a few of the major discrepancies between New Testament Christianity and Mormon theology about who Jesus Christ is.
The fact is, when compared to the New Testament teachings, one will see that Mormonism is one of many other religions who claim to be "Christian" but in fact are considered a pseudo-Christian denomination that is teaching another Jesus and another way to Salvation that is in total disagreement with the New Testament accounts.

:bs:
 

Starman3000m

New Member
I find it quite arrogant for one to characterize my response to the question as being “fair” because some unknown entity deems it as being honest. Its almost as if you felt a need to justify your comment or perhaps you felt that you wouldn't get an honest reply.

Chill, nhboy! I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on the subject since you felt it of importance to post for discussion. Your thoughts and comments about "political manuevering" are good and would have served well if they had been stated as an accompaniment at the very start of the thread.

nhboy said:
Because I couldn't care less about Land's theory, and inasmuch as the remainder of your response consists of rebutting his views, may I recommend you address your concerns directly to him where it may do the most good.

Um, this is a "Religion" topic and the subject becomes fair game for religious discussion to help others know the difference between Mormonism and Biblical theology as it pertains to "Christianity". That was the premise for my response; not to slight you in any way at all nor was it meant to be an "arrogant" comment. Sorry that you took it that way.
 

fredcaudle

New Member
Not being a theologian , I don't know if Mormonism fits the description of an “Abrahamic Religion" as Land is supposed to have said. Biema believes there is a considerable difference of opinion within the Christan theologian community which is hindering there ability to decide a secular dilemma, whether or not to endorse Mitt Romney. If what Land posits as his belief is true (that Mormonism is an Abrahamic religion) it may well be an attempt on his part to formulate a religious basis for interfaith understanding, or it may be as pragmatic as Biema eludes to. I think the latter.
Probably Land and others of other faiths are trying to see how Romney fits into a candidate of "correct theology"... I didn't see Land endorcing or "unendorcing" Romney but in his statement of "Abrahamic religion" he clearly defines it as other than Christian.

All religious groups are going to jocky the candidates that are running... "do they fit" our scheme of beliefs. Candidly, we must look at each candidates actions because what we say we believe will be verified (or not be verified) by what we do.

There have been candidates who ran as Christians, Baptists, Catholics etc. but many of them did not hold to Biblical teachings when it came vote time. So, it did not matter their religion but what mattered was what they did.

For those who are Baptists (like me) it would be impossible to say there is a link between Romney's faith and mine. Every Southern Baptist doctrine is NOT followed by Romney. So, I could not use "religion" as a reason to vote for him.

I do not know all the ins and outs of the Mormon faith even though I have taught on several occassions the differences of religions. The basic tenets of faith Mormons hold is completely different than baptist... this I do know. Also, IF we believe God was in the beginning and created... would not all religions stem from some Abrahamic thread? This is the man God called out from the nations to start the Israel nation and to be a blessing to the nations. (Gen. 12)

Just some thoughts both political and religious....
 

Starman3000m

New Member
Probably Land and others of other faiths are trying to see how Romney fits into a candidate of "correct theology"... I didn't see Land endorcing or "unendorcing" Romney but in his statement of "Abrahamic religion" he clearly defines it as other than Christian.

All religious groups are going to jocky the candidates that are running... "do they fit" our scheme of beliefs. Candidly, we must look at each candidates actions because what we say we believe will be verified (or not be verified) by what we do.

There have been candidates who ran as Christians, Baptists, Catholics etc. but many of them did not hold to Biblical teachings when it came vote time. So, it did not matter their religion but what mattered was what they did.

For those who are Baptists (like me) it would be impossible to say there is a link between Romney's faith and mine. Every Southern Baptist doctrine is NOT followed by Romney. So, I could not use "religion" as a reason to vote for him.

I do not know all the ins and outs of the Mormon faith even though I have taught on several occassions the differences of religions. The basic tenets of faith Mormons hold is completely different than baptist... this I do know.

Excellent points!

fredcaudle said:
Also, IF we believe God was in the beginning and created... would not all religions stem from some Abrahamic thread? This is the man God called out from the nations to start the Israel nation and to be a blessing to the nations. (Gen. 12)

Just some thoughts both political and religious....

Remember that God called Abraham to establish the faith in only One God during the time when mankind had turned away from Yahweh and to pagan religions - worshipping "other gods." Therefore, not all religions stem from the Abrahamic Covenant since there are still many pagan religions to this day that do not accept Monotheism nor Abraham. It is through Abraham where the start of The New Covenant between God and mankind began and which has been fulfilled through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.
 

fredcaudle

New Member
Excellent points!



Remember that God called Abraham to establish the faith in only One God during the time when mankind had turned away from Yahweh and to pagan religions - worshipping "other gods." Therefore, not all religions stem from the Abrahamic Covenant since there are still many pagan religions to this day that do not accept Monotheism nor Abraham. It is through Abraham where the start of The New Covenant between God and mankind began and which has been fulfilled through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.
I agree with you completely. I didn't write in a clear fashion. I was trying to show that since God has been and always will be.... false gods only stem from a misunderstanding of the true God (and so branches have developed, false as we believe them to be.)

I believe since God created, all religions stemmed from the True God... meaning a variation of what God demonstrated and revealed, but man rejected and man thought something different to gratify his desire for a god.

Hope this clarifies my writing on Abrahamic religions...
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Excellent points!



Remember that God called Abraham to establish the faith in only One God during the time when mankind had turned away from Yahweh and to pagan religions - worshipping "other gods." Therefore, not all religions stem from the Abrahamic Covenant since there are still many pagan religions to this day that do not accept Monotheism nor Abraham. It is through Abraham where the start of The New Covenant between God and mankind began and which has been fulfilled through Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah).

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

Which God do the Mormons pray to that is different from yours, or the Baptist's or the Catholic's or any other Christian religion?? How is the Jesus they pray to different..

Do you NOT read and base your faith on the New Testament JUST like the Mormons do??

Hate comes from ignorance, and as far as Mormonism goes, it seems you have your fair share of both.

If you have read the New Testament, and base your faith on it, then you are NO different than a Mormon, except they live by a stricter harsher statndard, basically "putting their money where their mouth is". they believe and pray to the same God, they belive and pray to the same Jesus, born of Mary.. etc etc..

Saying they aren't Christians, or not YOUR kind of Christian is plain ignorant.
 
Last edited:

fredcaudle

New Member
Which God do the Mormons pray to that is different from yours, or the Baptist's or the Catholic's or any other Christian religion?? How is the Jesus they pray to different..

Do you NOT read and base your faith on the New Testament JUST like the Mormons do??

Hate comes from ignorance, and as far as Mormonism goes, it seems you have your fair share of both.

If you have read the New Testament, and base your faith on it, then you are NO different than a Mormon, except they live by a stricter harsher statndard, basically "putting their money where their mouth is". they believe and pray to the same God, they belive and pray to the same Jesus, born of Mary.. etc etc..

Saying they aren't Christians, or not YOUR kind of Christian is plain ignorant.
Which God the mormons pray to you would have to ask a mormon... The others you listed that believe pray to God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus is NOT recognized as Deity (God) to the mormons. We recognize Him as the Son of God and King of Kings. We don't believe there was a need for their leader to remove the place of Jesus who is the First and the Last.

New Testament show Jesus as God... New Testament show Jesus as the "way, truth, and life and that no man comes to the Father except through Him [Jesus].

Ignorance comes from ignorance... where is what has been said is "hatred"? Maybe that is with you. Because I don't believe the way someone else believes is not hatred... it is called disagreement...

Saying they're not Christians is saying we don't view their beliefs as ours... ignorance is not accepting that people have difference of opinions...
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
Which God the mormons pray to you would have to ask a mormon...

IF you don't know how can you sit there and tell us what they do and don't believe??

THAT's IGNORANCE!!

They read, believe and base their religion on the King James version of the New Testament. So now, instead of believing what you've been TOLD, what do you think they believe in??

I would suggest you do your research and do as you say.. ASK A MORMON.. before you come in here spouting your ignorant thoughts and beliefs about someone else!!
 
Last edited:

itsbob

I bowl overhand
I personally don't believe in organized religion.. but I find it offensive when someone comes in here disparaging an entire religion over something they truly know nothing about.
 

fredcaudle

New Member
IF you don't know how can you sit there and tell us what they do and don't believe??

THAT's IGNORANCE!!

They read, believe and base their religion on the King James version of the New Testament. So now, instead of believing what you've been TOLD, what do you think they believe in??

I would suggest you do your research and do as you say.. ASK A MORMON.. before you come in here spouting your ignorant thoughts and beliefs about someone else!!
You are wrong in who they pray to... I won't speak for a mormon... I know they don't pray to the God I pray too because a mormon shared his belief with me... and its not mine.

Who cares what you find offensive or ignorant????? Can't handle comments, get off the page. And a person who does not believe in organized religion sure has no working knowledge to speak of religions...
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
You're not acting as if you're offended.

You're acting as if you're irate.

You must of heard it in my voice, eh?

Hate is hate.. You can camouflage it anyway you want..

But pointing to someone and saying "They aren't like us, they don't pray like we do"! is about the same as saying.. "They aren't like us, their skin is a different color"!

It's just a different kind of 'ism is all..
 
Last edited:

fredcaudle

New Member
i think the mormons might disagree with you.

they did an awful lot of "jesus this" and "jesus that" when i went to the temple as a kid......
yeah, but when they come to my door to evangelize me and I share what I believe about Jesus... they say its not true and I need to listen to their beliefs. We are not worshipping the same God then by their confession, not mine.

Mormons don't need to evangelize Christians do they?????
 
Top