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Thread: $ 15,000 Gift to home buyer!!

  1. #1

    $ 15,000 Gift to home buyer!!

    A $15,000 gift for homebuyers? - MSN Real Estate

    any opinions on this??

    Think it could help the economy?

  2. #2
    Cyber Bully Victim BoyGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kayakangler View Post
    A $15,000 gift for homebuyers? - MSN Real Estate

    any opinions on this??

    Think it could help the economy?
    I would have thought someone in the business would be more informed about this? What actually passed?


  3. 02-15-2009, 06:16 PM

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakangler View Post
    A $15,000 gift for homebuyers? - MSN Real Estate

    any opinions on this??

    Think it could help the economy?
    They took that out of the final version that passed. Now, there's an $8,000 credit for first time homebuyers, which phases out for individuals with an AGI over $75,000 and couples with an AGI over $150,000.
    Nearly all success in electoral politics boils down to convincing people that you recognize that they are not the problem, that someone or something else is.

  5. #4
    Last edited by kayakangler; 02-15-2009 at 06:22 PM.

  6. #5
    Chin Jiggla! Jigglepuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyGenius View Post
    I would have thought someone in the business would be more informed about this? What actually passed?


  7. #6
    Cyber Bully Victim BoyGenius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigglepuff View Post
    I mean seriously, this was sent out yesterday from the National Association of Realtors:

    Dear Fellow REALTOR®,

    Here's our take on the Stimulis Bill and Treasury announcements made this week. We look at the Stimulis package AND the Treasury's package holistically, in compliment with each other - mostly because that's how the Obama team is looking at it. Your representatives, the NAR Board of Directors, asked us in November to do 4 things (with an unspoken but clearly understood mandate to PRESERVE what we already have). Here they are: 1) get loan limits raised for high cost areas, 2) make the $7,500 tax credit NOT a loan, 3) try to find ways to push interest rates down (which are higher than they should be due to systemic risk right now) by 200 basis points, and 4) help provide solutions to the foreclosure/short sale problem.

    So here's what we have achieved: 1) the loan limits will be raised to $727,000 in high cost areas, 2) the tax credit will be raised to $8,000 with NO payback [a true credit], 3) interest rates have come down 125-150 basis points, and 4) the bill has over $50 billion in it for foreclosure mitigation, with Geitners Treasury plan signaling that the second half of TARP and TALF will be used to mitigate foreclosures through a government guarantee, drive down interest rates by buying another $200-300 billion of mortgage paper from the GSES's thereby freeing them up to do the same with new mortgages, and Fannie has just agreed to lift the cap of 4 investment properties eligible for loans and raise it to 10.

    In addition, we preserved what we have - which some tend to forget is always on the table when these negotiations start up again - mortgage interest deductability, real estate tax deductability, and the $250,000/$500,000 cap gains exclusion (an overall package worth more than $100 billion and for some a very attractive funding source for their pet projects).

    We did make a run at the $15,000 credit -- and we would have loved to have gotten that or the Homebuilders $22,000 credit idea as well as their 5 year loss carryback deal, but they were considered too rich for this program. What it did do though is totally take the debate off of whether a tax credit should be reinstated at all (it expired last year) and whether it was a true credit or a repayable loan, and kept the conversation on how much it should be. It also kept the debate off of 'what we are willing to give up to get a $15,000 tax credit' and kept the debate again, on how much it should be. It's pretty hard to complain when they give you what you ask for and you lose something you never had.

    While we study the Treasury specifics on their major role in providing the rest of the housing solution -- there is much more to come and we are working diligently with the Administration to help 'unclog the pipeline' and get capital flowing into housing again.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakangler View Post
    I'm not going to go into detail, because I've done it many times already. I understand the impulse to want to create a bottom in the housing market. The problem is, as with most markets, bottoms aren't created - they are found. When you artificially try to create one, it will be fundamentally unsound and likely to lead to more intense problems later. That's how we got here to begin with - by creating markets that weren't real and thinking we we're all more prosperous than we actually were.

    Just let the market find its bottom - I understand that means significant pain for some who vastly overestimated their own prosperity - but that pain cannot be avoided - it can only be delayed (at significant cost). More than anything, what this economic machine needs, in order to start operating efficiently again, is visibility. And in this case, that means are firm, reliable bottom, that everyone believes is real. The people that will make the economic engine start turning again will be smart enough to recognize that the bottoms we are trying to create aren't real - and they will remain skeptical about putting their capital back in the game.

    I know everyone wants a quick, pretty answer. I know everyone thinks we deserve to avoid the pain we have created for ourselves by living beyond our means for 2 decades. But, trying to avoid that pain equates to setting up deeper and longer lasting pain in the future. We made mistakes - now we must pay for them, so that we can put them behind us.

    So, the short answer is that I think it's a bad idea (especially since it's only for first time homebuyers). However, if we are set on going further in debt in order to artificially jump start the economy - it will be a much more effective measure than the majority of what is in the stimulus package.
    Last edited by Tilted; 02-15-2009 at 06:40 PM.
    Nearly all success in electoral politics boils down to convincing people that you recognize that they are not the problem, that someone or something else is.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilted View Post
    I'm not going to go into detail, because I've done it many times already. I understand the impulse to want to create a bottom in the housing market. The problem is, as with most markets, bottoms aren't created - they are found. When you artificially try to create one, it will be fundamentally unsound and likely to lead to more intense problems later. That's how we got here to begin with - by creating markets that weren't real and thinking we we're all more prosperous than we actually were.

    Just let the market find its bottom - I understand that means significant pain for some who vastly overestimated their own prosperity - but that pain cannot be avoided - it can only be delayed (at significant cost). More than anything, what this economic machine needs, in order to start operating efficiently again, is visibility. And in this case, that means are firm, reliable bottom, that everyone believes is real. The people that will make the economic engine start turning again will be smart enough to recognize that the bottoms we are trying to create aren't real - and they will remain skeptical about putting their capital back in the game.

    I know everyone wants a quick, pretty answer. I know everyone thinks we deserve to avoid the pain we have created for ourselves by living beyond our means for 2 decades. But, trying to avoid that pain equates to setting up deeper and longer lasting pain in the future. We made mistakes - now we must pay for them, so that we can put them behind us.

    So, the short answer is that I think it's a bad idea (especially since it's only for first time homebuyers). However, if we are set on going further in debt in order to artificially jump start the economy - it will be a much more effective measure than the majority of what is in the stimulus package.
    That’s interesting... I feel a little worried to tell you the truth. No doubt having a bunch of eager first time home buyers out there would be great for me, but at what cost. I remember a few years back when the fed kept dropping and dropping the interest rates to boost the economy... It worked great everyone was buying houses and refinancing and taking equity out of their homes living it up...That drove prices through the roof, now look at us... Maybe they should let things take their natural course and let the economy correct its self... just a thought… Maybe we are near enough to the bottom that corrective action will work?

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by kayakangler View Post
    That’s interesting... I feel a little worried to tell you the truth. No doubt having a bunch of eager first time home buyers out there would be great for me, but at what cost. I remember a few years back when the fed kept dropping and dropping the interest rates to boost the economy... It worked great everyone was buying houses and refinancing and taking equity out of their homes living it up...That drove prices through the roof, now look at us... Maybe they should let things take their natural course and let the economy correct its self... just a thought… Maybe we are near enough to the bottom that corrective action will work?
    Yeah, the market is a very efficient mechanism. It would quickly find the bottom if we would just leave it alone. How can we expect it to find the bottom if we keep doing things to interfere with its ability to do so? The problem is, a lot of people don't want to let it find a bottom where it really needs to - they want to keep pretending that we are more prosperous than we really are - they want to keep pretending that our policies aren't hurting us.
    Nearly all success in electoral politics boils down to convincing people that you recognize that they are not the problem, that someone or something else is.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tilted View Post
    They took that out of the final version that passed. Now, there's an $8,000 credit for first time homebuyers, which phases out for individuals with an AGI over $75,000 and couples with an AGI over $150,000.
    As usual, folks like me who are truly capable of stimulating the ecomony because they piss money away like there's no tomorrow, get zip, nada, zilch.

  12. 02-16-2009, 12:06 PM

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