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Thread: CRE Are you ready for this?

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaphappynmd View Post
    ColdCoffee is finally right about something...the path belongs to CRE. That is it.
    The path does belong to us now.... along with a number of other easements.... and Driftwoood Beach, Seahorse Beach, the Campgrounds, the Lake Beach, the Airport, the Stables and the land the management office is on... these are all open space.... we don't pay county or state taxes on it

    We also own millions of dollars worth of other property that the county agreed that would be green space [that is... we don't pay county taxes on it but we do pay state taxes]

    We also own millions of dollars of property that we do pay taxes on... This is the land that has [for one reason or another] returned to CRE ownership.

    There was a ballot issue years ago that allowed us to sell the lots we got in lieu of fees.... We've been selling those for years....

    But now we have a ballot that allows us to sell Lots we have not been paying taxes on.... truely common property..... and less than 300 people said we could.....

    That might mean we can sell "open space" property.... which includes easements and beaches and properties amenities sit on....

    This is a document about those lots....

    "Whereas, the Board of Directors (“BOD”) of the Property Owners Association of the Chesapeake Ranch Estates (“POACRE”) recognizes that there is a need to develop a comprehensive plan for the use of the approximately 573 acres of land owned by POACRE; and
    Whereas, towards that end the BOD is in need of the advice of legal counsel concerning tax and regulatory matters related to the development of a comprehensive plan; and
    Whereas, a preliminary analysis of alternative land uses entitled “Alternative Analysis of POACRE Owned Parcels has been prepared the Finance Committee.
    Wherefore, the BOD hereby adopts the following resolution:
    Legal Counsel to the Board of Director is requested to review the above-referenced preliminary analysis and prepare an opinion letter on the questions raised therein including items VII B, 1.e (1)-(6) as well as such other tax and legal issues related to the subject matter identified by Counsel in need of resolution and/or clarification. Legal Counsel is requested not to exceed ___hours of billable time in fulfilling this request."

    Now... do you see my question? I don't have a problem selling lots.... I don't have a problem selling lots to non-members [making them new members]... I have a problem with the selling of "open space" because unless we are careful..... John Eney could sell the easements...
    Last edited by hotcoffee; 07-27-2009 at 07:09 AM.

  2. #462
    Honorary SMIB NorthBeachPerso's Avatar
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    If you guys would start selling deeded/dedicated open space for development the County and State would have you in court so fast your heads wouldn't stop spinning. Worst case scenario would be a fine, costs and repayment of any property tax that was exempted. If the areas have been involved in the TDR program that money would be paid back. If these are unbuildable lots anyway (which I'll bet they are so who in their right mind would buy them?) you all would be royally screwed six ways to Sunday.

  3. #463
    NBP, I posed that same questions to someone just recently, especially regarding TDRs
    I know POACRE states in the sale of said lots the new owners would be liable for back taxes/or taxes which were exempted.

    POACRE should never accept someones lot in lieu of payment. POACRE is not a real estate agency. Have them sell themselves and pay the back fees. There is no money to be made if we put them in open space to avoid taxes (can't sell, but avoid costs), leave available to sell (pay taxes until sold if ever), trade for TDR and can't sell, (and possible do so in violation - which would cost POACRE).

    POACRE needs to get out of the real estate business.

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by slaphappynmd View Post
    Actually the beach belongs to the state of Maryland up to the high tide line. I know CRE thinks they own everything but it simply is not true.

    ColdCoffee is finally right about something...the path belongs to CRE. That is it.

    The beaches are all State property. That's why POACRE has never controlled the access by boat. POACRE only owned and controlled the access to them from the land on their privately controlled right of way until the SHUR agreement was signed. Because our roads right of ways directly coincide with the high tide mark, and now that we have the SHUR agreement, we have no private beaches.

    A similar situation exists on Lake Lariat, but with a slightly different argument. The water surface on Lake Lariat belongs to the State. It can be accessed by public easement on Boat Ramp road. So, anyone that wants to launch a boat can do so regardless of membership.

    The residential properties owned by POACRE are always sellable. No vote was necessary. The recent vote only served to LIMIT the sales to adjacent property owners.

    There is no residual "open space" or "green space" designation on residential lots. That has only been a concept used by people that wanted to control discussion by confusing the open space designation of common properties with residential properties.

    Those that are concerned about these easements should know that very specific easements and conditions are present in the deed for the common properties which prohibit any barricade to the access of the water.
    Last edited by exnodak; 07-27-2009 at 11:35 AM.
    "Communication without Intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant." Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC

  5. #465
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    Ex....

    I've seen the tax bills on the lots....

    We do have some lots that are open space designated by county and state [like the campgrounds]

    We do pay taxes on the rest of the lots... but there are some... that we don't pay county taxes on... These are indeed known as green space as far as the county is concerned....

    My concern is wording of the ballot issue that passed by the member vote being unclear....

    Jackie....

    It's common practice to accept the property in lieu of back fees.... and I believe we have paid back taxes on some lots...

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by hotcoffee View Post
    Ex....

    I've seen the tax bills on the lots....

    We do have some lots that are open space designated by county and state [like the campgrounds]

    We do pay taxes on the rest of the lots... but there are some... that we don't pay county taxes on... These are indeed known as green space as far as the county is concerned....

    My concern is wording of the ballot issue that passed by the member vote being unclear....

    Jackie....

    It's common practice to accept the property in lieu of back fees.... and I believe we have paid back taxes on some lots...
    The campgrounds and most of the other amenities are zoned commercial open space. Different from the residential properties entirely.

    Your concern is valid only with respect to the residential properties of which there are 537. I think the ballot question was flawed. Not 537 acres, but 537 residential lots.
    "Communication without Intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communication is irrelevant." Gen. Alfred. M. Gray, USMC

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