Pre-Existing Health "Conditions" Uninsurable

[Nonno]

"WASHINGTON, D.C. -- In the wake of news reports that a history of domestic violence is considered a "pre-existing condition" by many health insurers, today Consumer Watchdog released internal insurance company documents showing that firefighters, police officers, war correspondents, expectant fathers, pregnant women and patients with asthma, acne, allergies, and toenail fungus will often be denied health insurance policies.

The internal insurance company documents – known as "underwriting" guidelines – reveal that insurers deny applicants based on occupation, age, weight, use of a wide range of common prescription drugs, minor health conditions or mere “symptoms” that have not been reported to a physician. In some cases, instead of denying coverage outright insurance companies will sell policies to these applicants but only at exorbitant costs.

“These documents show that just giving the insurance industry an uncontested franchise by requiring Americans to buy policies will not solve the health care crisis. Americans need a strong 'public option' which would not have the tendency to game the system like private insurers and strong regulation to watch over the industry day-to-day,” said Jerry Flanagan, Consumer Watchdog's Health Policy Director.

More at source: Pre-Existing Health "Conditions" -- Cops, Firefighters, Expectant Dads, and Those Suffering From Allergies, Acne and Toenail Fungus Are Uninsurable According To Internal Documents - Consumer Watchdog

 

[rfmicro]

As a point of interest checked out a United Health Care HSA plan. You could not get a policy if you had three pre-existing conditions or more.

 

[bcp]

looking at it from the side of the insurer, I understand.
why would they want to take someone that will pay a 500 a month premium, yet right from the start require a 2 or 3 thousand a month in health care costs.
why would the rest of the people paying into that company want to have the company jack their rates to cover that person.

after the house burns down is not the time to get insurance to have it rebuilt.

 

[SamSpade]

If the government wants to ensure the public that they are protected from crippling health disasters, then it needs to set up their own separate program. I'm not crazy about the idea of my insurance premiums tripling and quadrupling because insurance companies become swamped with people getting insurance AFTER they've run aground.

Secondly, there's no intelligent reason for anyone to buy insurance at all if they can always get it before they have a large expense. It's always, ALWAYS cheaper to pay out of pocket for health care than it is to pay for insurance. We buy insurance, because we know something bad *may* happen. My total compensation for health insurance is between 10-15,000 a year. I *never* pay that much unless I have surgery or a major health need, in any given year.

They have to come up with another idea - forcing insurance companies to charge the same price for EVERYONE, and forcing them to take anyone regardless of conditions seems intended to bankrupt them.

 

[awpitt]

If the government wants to ensure the public that they are protected from crippling health disasters, then it needs to set up their own separate program. I'm not crazy about the idea of my insurance premiums tripling and quadrupling because insurance companies become swamped with people getting insurance AFTER they've run aground.

Most of that possibility would be eliminated by the mandate to have insurance which would require folks to have insurance BEFORE they've run aground.

Secondly, there's no intelligent reason for anyone to buy insurance at all if they can always get it before they have a large expense. It's always, ALWAYS cheaper to pay out of pocket for health care than it is to pay for insurance. We buy insurance, because we know something bad *may* happen. My total compensation for health insurance is between 10-15,000 a year. I *never* pay that much unless I have surgery or a major health need, in any given year.

That's about the same cost for my coverage. What you say makes sense. The only problem is that most folks do not have the savings it would take to underwrite a single major hospital visit. I wish more employers would offer the high deductable plans which have lower premiums and all routine stuff is paid out of pocket. That along with an HSA (not FSA) woudl be a good mix.

They have to come up with another idea - forcing insurance companies to charge the same price for EVERYONE, and forcing them to take anyone regardless of conditions seems intended to bankrupt them.

Most, if not all, present day group plans charge the same to everyone and we don't hear of a bunch of bankrupies going on.



.

 

[Larry Gude]

They have to come up with another idea - forcing insurance companies to charge the same price for EVERYONE, and forcing them to take anyone regardless of conditions seems intended to bankrupt them.

Sam, it does not matter.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, and NO ONE is talking about it, is 'what will happen when the wall between preexisting conditions and treatment for those conditions comes tumbling down'?

The fact of the matter is an awful lot of people just live with various conditions and maladies. Their reasons are their own but it's fairly easy, in my view, to see what will happen when care is unlimited and 'free'.

 

[bcp]

Sam, it does not matter.

The 800 pound gorilla in the room, and NO ONE is talking about it, is 'what will happen when the wall between preexisting conditions and treatment for those conditions comes tumbling down'?

The fact of the matter is an awful lot of people just live with various conditions and maladies. Their reasons are their own but it's fairly easy, in my view, to see what will happen when care is unlimited and 'free'.

I fully intend to abuse the system if it passes.
Right now Im the type that waits till an abulance is needed to bring me for treatment, but if it passes? I will be going to the doctor every time I fart or burb.

 

[Tilted]

I wish more employers would offer the high deductable plans which have lower premiums and all routine stuff is paid out of pocket.

Our health care system would function better if this kind of 'coverage' was more prevalent. Costs would tend to be lower, and quality would tend to be higher, if more people had health insurance and less people had fixed-rate all-you-can-eat style health care packages.

 

[SamSpade]

Most, if not all, present day group plans charge the same to everyone and we don't hear of a bunch of bankrupies going on.

?? I hope you didn't forget what we're discussing here. The REASON they aren't going bankrupt is that they possess the ability to refuse risky customers with pre-existing conditions. Auto insurers have the same ability - the right to refuse to cover people. Or they will do the next sensible thing - charge more for someone with higher risk.

Health insurance companies are able to distribute the risk BECAUSE they know people like me will pay thousands each year to prevent such a medical catastrophe. I pay under a thousand a year to insure two automobiles. I pay 12-15 times that to insure my wife and son, when in all likelihood, I would normally pay less than 10% of that if I paid out of pocket - in a normal year.

 

[Tilted]

?? I hope you didn't forget what we're discussing here. The REASON they aren't going bankrupt is that they possess the ability to refuse risky customers with pre-existing conditions. Auto insurers have the same ability - the right to refuse to cover people. Or they will do the next sensible thing - charge more for someone with higher risk.

Health insurance companies are able to distribute the risk BECAUSE they know people like me will pay thousands each year to prevent such a medical catastrophe. I pay under a thousand a year to insure two automobiles. I pay 12-15 times that to insure my wife and son, when in all likelihood, I would normally pay less than 10% of that if I paid out of pocket - in a normal year.

He was talking about group plans, which I don't believe are generally allowed to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions (though they may be allowed to delay coverage for those conditions). But, you're right, some of the coverage costs for those with higher expected health care expenses are shifted to those with lower expected health care expenses. Many people are still in what thus become bad value policies, because the government gives a tax benefit for employers compensating people by paying health care premiums (as opposed to paying them the cash to do with as they wish).

When issuing individual policies, insurers can still exclude people for pre-existing conditions, and thus offer a better value for most seeking coverage. If they are forced to accept people with pre-existing conditions, the costs of those policies will rise, and they will become worse values for many people.

 

[jwwb2000]

Michael Moore did a movie on this very subject. It is called "Sicko". If you want to know just how messed up this countries medical insurances are, watch it. You also get to see the top of the line medical treatment the detainees in GITMO are getting for FREE under our tax dollars. It also shows you how other countries who have government run healthcare patients are taken care of. It will make you think twice about our medical system.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

Michael Moore did a movie on this very subject. It is called "Sicko". If you want to know just how messed up this countries medical insurances are, watch it. You also get to see the top of the line medical treatment the detainees in GITMO are getting for FREE under our tax dollars. It also shows you how other countries who have government run healthcare patients are taken care of. It will make you think twice about our medical system.

That guy is a looney as well as a hypocrite!

 

[bcp]

Michael Moore did a movie on this very subject. It is called "Sicko". If you want to know just how messed up this countries medical insurances are, watch it. You also get to see the top of the line medical treatment the detainees in GITMO are getting for FREE under our tax dollars. It also shows you how other countries who have government run healthcare patients are taken care of. It will make you think twice about our medical system.

and you could also make a documentary showing how much better our health coverage is than other countries.

I prefer to take my chances with what we have now. Its working well for me.

 

[awpitt]

and you could also make a documentary showing how much better our health coverage is than other countries.

I prefer to take my chances with what we have now. Its working well for me.

That may be but will it always be????? That's the problem. As has been said, most folks are just one event away from total finacial mess. People get laid off. Employers decide to drop certain carriers. Someone in the family gets really sick. For a lot of people, just one event changes their outlook from "It's working well for me." to something like, "My kid is sick and there's nothing I can do about it because the treatment is too expensive."

 

[jwwb2000]

That guy is a looney as well as a hypocrite!

and you could also make a documentary showing how much better our health coverage is than other countries.

I prefer to take my chances with what we have now. Its working well for me.

I know the guy is a loon but he did make some very valid points within the movie. His own relatives would not even come over into the US without getting insurance to cover any injury they may have gotten while visiting, even a cold.

I'm not saying what other countries are doing is better than what we have but they sure as hell are not having to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for medical care even with insurance. The price of our medications are outragous here, if you do not have any type of insurance or discount subscription.

The way of other countries government run medical, such as Great Britian, has been working for years and with great success. I just don't understand why our government doesn't look into how these are run and why they are successful. We already pay taxes, why not just raise those a bit more, pay the legislation people a little less so they don't have all that extra to pay for escort service girls, and put that money toward a more organized medically run govenment system.

 

[Gigi22]

I soon will fall into the person with pre existing conditions.. Let me tell you it is scary and unfair.. I have had medical insurance all my life.. Now, different job, no insurance and was turned down because of these conditions that most everyone has. They won't touch me and all my numbers are good and under control. If I do find some company I am sure I will have to pay a large amount which I cannot afford. I have only used my insurance one time for an operation in 50 years. Always have my checkups and that is it.. Now, I am older and should not have to worry about this but I do.. It is really hard and people with insurance don't realize how lucky they are.. That is why I support the president who may not have everything right but, at least he is trying to do something to help.. I am also glad to see this conversation here.. Idea's Idea's Idea's that is what we need to do instead of name calling and screaming... Unite and work things out to be fair to everyone and stop the insurance companies and doctors from raking us over the coals...