Fascism

based on the definition of Fascism you would ...

  • Say we are / have been sliding towards a Fascist State ......

    Votes: 13 68.4%
  • say it is not happening in your grand kids lifetime ...

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Other Explain ....

    Votes: 2 10.5%

  • Total voters
    19
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EmptyTimCup

Guest
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Fascism: is a religion of the State, it assumes the organic unity of the body politic and longs for a national leader attuned to the will of the people. it is totalitarian in that it views everything as political and holds that any action by the state is justified to achieve the common good. it takes responsibility for all aspects of life, including our health and well-being, and seeks to impose uniformity of thought and action, wither by force or through regulation and social pressure. Everything, including economy and religion, must be aligned with its objectives. any rival identity is part of the "problem" and therefore defined as the enemy.


:popcorn:


Bush was no conservative .... the no child left behind is decidedly Fascist
Obama and UNC .... Fascist
 
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Larry Gude

Strung Out
Nope. Fascism is dependent on a key figure. Hitler. Mussolini. Wilson.

Bush and Obama come and go. Even a Pelosi, once someone finds a bucket of water, will leave the national scene and leave little more than a toasted broom stick, bad legislation or some stupid war in their wake.

We are becoming ever more socialist in my view. We are trying to become more like Western Europe and they are trying to become more like us 30 years ago.

:shrug:
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
We are becoming ever more socialist in my view.

That would be my opinion as well.

As I understand it -

Socialism is when business is heavily regulated by government.
Fascism is when business is OWNED by the government.
Communism is when business IS the government.
 
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EmptyTimCup

Guest
That would be my opinion as well.

As I understand it -

Socialism is when business is heavily regulated by government.
Fascism is when business is OWNED by the government.
Communism is when business IS the government.



aren't the last two the same ....



I am interested why you think Fascist OWN businesses
 

philibusters

Active Member
I don't really see us going into that direction. Certainly there is a bit of that--but not anything concerted to move us in that direction. From that definition I see three main elements of facism

1) One leader
2) pushing for more government involvement
3) and enforcing conformity.

A perfect example in literature would be 1984 by Orwell or alternatively Brave New World.

You spurts of them, for example, some people were obsessed with Obama, you could take that as evidence of 1, the government is constantly growing--so there is a lot of evidence of number 2, and you see some examples of three as well.

However, while the second element is a huge trend the first and third trends are more here and there. I don't see a move in our country towards facism.
 

philibusters

Active Member
aren't the last two the same ....



I am interested why you think Fascist OWN businesses

I am not SamSpade but my instinct is they could be the same, but they are not necessarily the same. For example if the government owns and operates a company it is the same, whereas if the government owns a company but lets it run on a private model, much the way shareholders own corporations, but management manages them, they it would not be the same.
 

Cheeky1

Yae warsh wif' wutr
I am not SamSpade but my instinct is they could be the same, but they are not necessarily the same. For example if the government owns and operates a company it is the same, whereas if the government owns a company but lets it run on a private model, much the way shareholders own corporations, but management manages them, they it would not be the same.

That's what I was thinking. So, x2
 
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EmptyTimCup

Guest
Outside of a few academic seminars, this is about as intelligent as discussions about fascism get in America. Angry left-wingers shout that all those to their right, particularly corporate fat cats and the politicians who love them, are fascists. Meanwhile, besieged conservatives sit dumbfounded by the nastiness of the slander. Bill Maher to the contrary, fascism is not when corporations become the government," Ironically, however, George Carlin's conclusion is right, though not his reasoning. If fascism does come to America, it will indeed take the form of "smiley-face fascism" - nice fascism. In fact, in many respects fascism not only is here but has been here for nearly a century. For what we call liberalism - the refurbished edifice of American Progressivism - is in fact a descendant and manifestation of Fascism. This doesn't mean it's the same thing as Nazism. Nor is it the twin of Italian Fascism, But Progressivism was a sister movement of fascism, and today's liberalism is the daughter of Progressivism. One could strain the comparison and say that today's liberalism is the well-intentioned niece of European fascism. She is hardly identical to her uglier relations, but she nonetheless carries an embarrassing family resemblance that few will admit to recognizing.

There is no word in the English language that gets thrown around more freely by people who don't know what it means than "fascism." Indeed, the more someone uses the word "fascist" in everyday conversation, the less likely it is that he knows what he's talking about. You might think that the exception to this rule would be scholars of fascism. But what really distinguishes the scholarly community is its honesty. Not even the professionals have figured out what exactly fascism is. Countless scholarly investigations begin with this pro forma acknowledgment, "Such is the welter of divergent opinion surrounding the term," writes Roger Griffin in his introduction to The Nature of Fascism, "that it is almost de rigueur to open contributions to the debate on fascism with some such observation," The few scholars who have ventured their own definitions provide a glimmer of insight as to why consensus is so elusive. Griffin, a contemporary leading light in the field, defines fascism as "a genus of political ideology whose mythic core in its various permutations is a palingenetic form of populist ultra-nationalism." Roger Eatwell claims that fascism's "essence" is a "form of thought that preaches the need for social rebirth in order to forge a holistic-national radical Third Way." Emilio Gentile suggests, "A mass movement, that combines different classes but is prevalently of the middle classes, which sees itself as having a mission of national regeneration, is in a state of war with its adversaries and seeks a monopoly of power by using terror, parliamentary tactics and compromise to create a new regime, destroying democracy."
 
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EmptyTimCup

Guest
To begin with, one must be able to distinguish between the symptoms and the disease. Consider militarism, which will come up again and again in the course of this book. Militarism was indisputably central to fascism (and communism) in countless countries. But it has a more nuanced relationship with fascism than one might suppose. For some thinkers in Germany and the United States (such as Teddy Roosevelt and Oliver Wendell Holmes), war was truly the source of important moral values. This was militarism as a social philosophy pure and simple. But for far more people, militarism was a pragmatic expedient: the highest, best means for organizing society in productive ways. Inspired by ideas like those in William James's famous essay 'The Moral Equivalent of War," militarism seemed to provide a workable and sensible model for achieving desirable ends. Mussolini, who openly admired and invoked James, used this logic for his famous "Battle of the Grains" and other sweeping social initiatives. Such ideas had an immense following in the United States, with many leading progressives championing the use of "industrial armies" to create the ideal workers' democracy. Later, Franklin Roosevelt's Civilian Conservation Corps - as militaristic a social program as one can imagine - borrowed from these ideas, as did JFK's Peace Corps.

This trope has hardly been purged from contemporary liberalism. Every day we hear about the "war on cancer." the "war on drugs." the "War on Poverty," and exhortations to make this or that social challenge the "moral equivalent of war." From health care to gun control to global warming, liberals insist that we need to "get beyond politics" and "put ideological differences behind us" in order to "do the people's business." The experts and scientists know what to do, we are told; therefore the time for debate is over. This, albeit in a nicer and more benign form, is the logic of fascism - and it was on ample display in the administrations of Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and yes, even John F Kennedy-Then, of course, there's racism. Racism was indisputably central to Nazi ideology
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Today we are perfectly comfortable equating racism and Nazism. And in important respects that's absolutely appropriate. But why not equate Nazism and, say. Afrocentrism? Many early Afrocentrists, like Marcus Garvey. were pro-fascist or openly identified themselves as fascists. The Nation of Islam has surprising ties to Nazism, and its theology is Himmleresque. The Black Panthers - a militaristic cadre of young men dedicated to violence, separatism, and racial superiority - are as quintessentially fascist as Hitler's Brownshirts or Mussolini's action squads. The Afrocentrist writer Leonard Jeffries (blacks are "sun people," and whites are "ice people") could easily be mistaken for a Nazi theorist.

Certain quarters of the left assert that "Zionism equals racism" and that Israelis are equivalent to Nazis. As invidious and problematic as those comparisons are, why aren't we hearing similar denunciations of groups ranging from the National Council of La Raza - that is, "The Race" - to the radical Hispanic group MEChA, whose motto - "Par La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada" - means "Everything for the race, nothing outside the race"? Why is it that when a white man spouts such sentiments it's "objectively" fascist, but when a person of color says the same thing it's merely an expression of fashionable multiculturalism?

The most important priority for the left is not to offer any answer at all to such questions. They would much prefer to maintain Orwell's definition of fascism as anything not desirable, thus excluding their own fascistic proclivities from inquiring eyes. When they are forced to answer, however, the response is usually more instinctive, visceral or dismissively mocking than rational or principled. Their logic seems to be that multiculturalism, the Peace Corps, and such are good things - things that liberals approve of - and good things can't be fascist by simple virtue of the fact that liberals approve of them. Indeed, this seems to be the irreducible argument of countless writers who glibly use the word "fascist" to describe the "bad guys" based on no other criteria than that liberals think they are bad. Fidel Castro, one could argue, is a textbook fascist. But because the left approves of his resistance to U.S. "imperialism" - and because he uses the abracadabra words of Marxism - it's not just wrong but objectively stupid to call him a fascist. Meanwhile, calling Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, Rudy Giuliani, and other conservative’s fascists is simply what right-thinking, sophisticated people do.

The major flaw in all of this is that fascism, properly understood, is not a phenomenon of the right at all. Instead, it is, and always has been, a phenomenon of the left. This fact - an inconvenient truth if there ever was one-- is obscured in our time by the equally mistaken belief that fascism and communism are opposites. In reality, they are closely related, historical competitors for the same constituents, seeking to dominate and control the same social space. The fact that they appear as polar opposites is a trick of intellectual history and (more to the point) the result of a concerted propaganda effort on the part of the "Reds" to make the "Browns" appear objectively evil and "other" (ironically, demonization of the "other" is counted as a definitional trait of fascism). But in terms of their theory and practice, the differences are minimal.
 

EvolutionIsBS

Suspended User
Communism always has been and always will be the major threat to our freedom.

The NWO and their U.S. puppet presidents are purposely destroying our country.


The U.S. economy WILL collapse by the end of this year.

Buy lots of food and ammo people or suffer the consequences.
 
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