It Amuses Me Too....

[TurboK9]

I find it highly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the irony when the left ridicules those who do not want the NYC Community Center / Prayer Space / Mosque / Recruiting Center / Whateverthe####itreallyis built on it's current site, accusing them of 'Islamaphobia', quoting imaginary 'rights' (you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want), when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned. Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity. Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court.

Over the last few decades Christians in this country have watched their own freedom to practice and display their religious beliefs slowly and signicificantly dwindle. And it's not just Christians... try flying an American flag nowadays, there is a chance you will be asked to take it down as it may 'offend' someone.

But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it?

ANd now, facing simple protests of his planned facility, Rauf is essentially threatening violence. In my lifetime I have never heard a Priest or minister preach violece when faced with their proposed building site being shot down. I'm pretty sure we'll hear all sorts of 'but Christians...' comparisons though. Never fails!

 

[lnmarsh]

I find it highly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the irony when the left ridicules those who do not want the NYC Community Center / Prayer Space / Mosque / Recruiting Center / Whateverthe####itreallyis built on it's current site, accusing them of 'Islamaphobia', quoting imaginary 'rights' (you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want), when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned. Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity. Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court.

Over the last few decades Christians in this country have watched their own freedom to practice and display their religious beliefs slowly and signicificantly dwindle. And it's not just Christians... try flying an American flag nowadays, there is a chance you will be asked to take it down as it may 'offend' someone.

But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it?

ANd now, facing simple protests of his planned facility, Rauf is essentially threatening violence. In my lifetime I have never heard a Priest or minister preach violece when faced with their proposed building site being shot down. I'm pretty sure we'll hear all sorts of 'but Christians...' comparisons though. Never fails!

All I have to say (for now) is.. Yup.

 

[Larry Gude]

I find it highly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the irony when the left ridicules those who do not want the NYC Community Center / Prayer Space / Mosque / Recruiting Center / Whateverthe####itreallyis built on it's current site, accusing them of 'Islamaphobia', quoting imaginary 'rights' (you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want), when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned. Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity. Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court.

Over the last few decades Christians in this country have watched their own freedom to practice and display their religious beliefs slowly and signicificantly dwindle. And it's not just Christians... try flying an American flag nowadays, there is a chance you will be asked to take it down as it may 'offend' someone.

But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it?

ANd now, facing simple protests of his planned facility, Rauf is essentially threatening violence. In my lifetime I have never heard a Priest or minister preach violece when faced with their proposed building site being shot down. I'm pretty sure we'll hear all sorts of 'but Christians...' comparisons though. Never fails!

We are in a really bad place right now, the cynicism, sarcasm, misplaced loyalties, poor policy decisions and illogical ideas and passions.

 

[Merlin99]

I find it highly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the irony when the left ridicules those who do not want the NYC Community Center / Prayer Space / Mosque / Recruiting Center / Whateverthe####itreallyis built on it's current site, accusing them of 'Islamaphobia', quoting imaginary 'rights' (you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want),If you own a piece of property, why can't you build what you want on it, it's not against any zoning laws and all the proper permit have been gotten when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned. Why does this confuse you, there is a vast difference between public buildings and private ones. (your going to have to explain the privately owned public facility to me) Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity.Don't agree with this at all Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court. Torn down I don't agree with, but if you don't agree with something, why not take it to court?

Over the last few decades Christians in this country have watched their own freedom to practice and display their religious beliefs slowly and signicificantly dwindle. Christians aren't special, keep it in church and no one would object.
And it's not just Christians... try flying an American flag nowadays, there is a chance you will be asked to take it down as it may 'offend' someone.Again I don't agree with this.


But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. It's not illegal to be offensive And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it? Argue the point all you want, but if you don't have a legal leg to stand on, don't be suprised if the judge find against you.



And now, facing simple protests of his planned facility, Rauf is essentially threatening violence. In my lifetime I have never heard a Priest or minister preach violece when faced with their proposed building site being shot down. He's not threatening violence, but he's pointing out it will happen. A black kid in Watts gets shot by a white cop, violence is going to break out, it doesn't take a genius to see it will happen. I'm pretty sure we'll hear all sorts of 'but Christians...' comparisons though. Never fails!

I don't agree with the placement of the building either, legally it's allowed, morally they shouldn't have even asked.

 

[TurboK9]

I don't agree with the placement of the building either, legally it's allowed, morally they shouldn't have even asked.

If you own a piece of property, why can't you build what you want on it, it's not against any zoning laws and all the proper permit have been gotten

Unless, like most communities, it is a non-residential structure and the people are given the opportunity to speak out against construction in front of the board during the permitting process as in many communities across the US.

Christians aren't special, keep it in church and no one would object.

What? So when muslim Burkas are outlawed, and Hasidic Jews have to cut their curls, and everyone has to wear a blank white T shirt and be completely drab and plain and everyone is exactly the same we'll all be happy? Keep it in Church? And what about the First Amendment? If I want to stand on the corner and sing 'Jesus Loves Me' at the top of my longs, I should be entitled. After all, if you want to blast 1200 watts of cop killler rap, that's OK.

Are you serious?

This is now a 'non denominational community center' right? So it isn't a Muslim facility, so why are Muslim's so worried about it? Or maybe it is a Muslim facility but without a Mosque? Shouldn't they keep their religion in a Mosque? What?

He's not threatening violence, but he's pointing out it will happen. A black kid in Watts gets shot by a white cop, violence is going to break out, it doesn't take a genius to see it will happen.

First let me point out that protesting a structure is completely different than shooting a kid?

You can look at it that way if you wish. But if he is 'just pointing it out' then when won't he speak out against it? Why doesn't he say "As we all know, there are Muslims who can go to extremes any time they think the US is somehow doing something against Islam. If the protests continue I fear it could lead to violence. However, I would also like to point out that I and my followers will stand with the US and NYC whatever the decision of the people, and we condemn any violent action even if taken in support of my project."

But Noooooo that would make way to much good sense.

 

[vraiblonde]

This is a really childish attitude. Of course you can protest this "community center" - who is stopping you? And of course some wacko will threaten violence - people do that crap all the time.

I don't particularly care for the "well, THEY did it first!" excuse for bad behavior. It's still bad behavior, period. Why do you want to emulate the behavior of people you disapprove of?

 

[Nonno]

Nonno

is not amused.....

 

[awpitt]

(you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want)

They're not.

They wanted to build something so they submitted their plans to the NYC P&Z office and got the required approvals.

when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned.

You sure about that? If there's an issue with something going on with private property, that would have to be taken up witht the owner.

Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity. Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court.

These cases are rare. It just seems to be wide spread because the few times it does happen, the media hipes it up and it becomes national news. My son wears a cross on his necklace to school everyday and has done so since elementary school. There hasn't been a single problem, ever.

But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it?

Offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population? How many people live in NYC vs. how many are down there protesting? Is this a case of a small vocal minority?

Just wondering.

I find it highly amusing that some people don't seem to understand the irony when the left ridicules those who do not want the NYC Community Center / Prayer Space / Mosque / Recruiting Center / Whateverthe####itreallyis built on it's current site, accusing them of 'Islamaphobia', quoting imaginary 'rights' (you cannot build whatever you want wherever the eff you want), when for the last few decades Christian symbols have been systematically stripped from public facilities, both publically and privately owned. Children have been sent home from school for openly wearing symbols of Christianity. Monuments and memorials have been torn down and contested in court.

Over the last few decades Christians in this country have watched their own freedom to practice and display their religious beliefs slowly and signicificantly dwindle. And it's not just Christians... try flying an American flag nowadays, there is a chance you will be asked to take it down as it may 'offend' someone.

But it is a 'right' to build a massive building, offensive to a LARGE segment of the NYC population, where they are currently building it. And nobody should argue this, because it is their right to build it?

ANd now, facing simple protests of his planned facility, Rauf is essentially threatening violence. In my lifetime I have never heard a Priest or minister preach violece when faced with their proposed building site being shot down. I'm pretty sure we'll hear all sorts of 'but Christians...' comparisons though. Never fails!

 

[Merlin99]

Unless, like most communities, it is a non-residential structure and the people are given the opportunity to speak out against construction in front of the board during the permitting process as in many communities across the US. You have to have a reason to deny, because you disagree with a religion is never going to fly. If you somehow convinced planning and zoning to deny because of their religion it will end up costing the city when they sue.



What? So when muslim Burkas are outlawed, and Hasidic Jews have to cut their curls, and everyone has to wear a blank white T shirt and be completely drab and plain and everyone is exactly the same we'll all be happy? Keep it in Church? These are personal,(confined to their own bodies) christians have a tendency to want to put on displays. If these displays are on their own property, fine, but they want to put them up in front of city hall or in front of schools, that's where the problems come in. And what about the First Amendment? If I want to stand on the corner and sing 'Jesus Loves Me' at the top of my longs, I should be entitled. After all, if you want to blast 1200 watts of cop killler rap, that's OK. Fine with me, sing your longs out.

Are you serious? yes I am.

This is now a 'non denominational community center' right? So it isn't a Muslim facility, so why are Muslim's so worried about it? Or maybe it is a Muslim facility but without a Mosque? Shouldn't they keep their religion in a Mosque? What? I might not understand the question, as it reads it sound like you want to get rid any religious organization which is not a church, effectively killing the YMCA's



First let me point out that protesting a structure is completely different than shooting a kid? I just used this to show some actions have will have violent outcomes.

You can look at it that way if you wish. But if he is 'just pointing it out' then when won't he speak out against it? Why doesn't he say "As we all know, there are Muslims who can go to extremes any time they think the US is somehow doing something against Islam. If the protests continue I fear it could lead to violence. However, I would also like to point out that I and my followers will stand with the US and NYC whatever the decision of the people, and we condemn any violent action even if taken in support of my project."
I don't know why, maybe the thought hasn't occured to him.
But Noooooo that would make way to much good sense.

...

 

[awpitt]

Unless, like most communities, it is a non-residential structure and the people are given the opportunity to speak out against construction in front of the board during the permitting process as in many communities across the US.

There were public hearings back in May.



.

 

[vraiblonde]

It'd be great if our elected "representatives" had some common sense and were interested in their own country rather than worrying about offending every other country in the world. But they don't and they aren't, and there's nothing we can do about it except vote them out. Which very few seem inclined to actually do.

Rather than doing dumb symbolic things like burning Korans, we should be speaking softly and carrying a big stick. Burning Korans in protest just highlights our impotence and I'm pretty sure the Islamonutties are laughing their asses off that that's the best we can come up with.

 

[TurboK9]

Ground Zero Mosque To Be Built, Church Still Blocked | The American Pundit

Just. Frickin'. Amazing.

Just to be clear, I'm not against the 'mosque' because it is a 'mosque' per se, I'm against it because I'm sick and tired of watching one group, who has a history of supporting this country and a following which built this country, get stonewalled and abused at every corner...

While other groups, who are relative newcomers, and have large groups of followers that would prefer to see us all dead, get coddled and treated with kid gloves.

I want equality, for everyone. Not just the minorities, not just the easily offended, not just the newbies. Everyone.

 

[vraiblonde]

And, for the record, I do not think that Park 51 guy is some kindly good-hearted Muslim who wants peace for all mankind. I think he's an Islamic nutty instigator who is trying to provoke a violent reaction. Shoot, they know our culture and our laws better than we do - they know what they can and can't get away with, and what the non-consequences will be if they piss us off. We might burn a Koran! Woo woo!

 

[awpitt]

Ground Zero Mosque To Be Built, Church Still Blocked | The American Pundit

Just. Frickin'. Amazing.

Just to be clear, I'm not against the 'mosque' because it is a 'mosque' per se, I'm against it because I'm sick and tired of watching one group, who has a history of supporting this country and a following which built this country, get stonewalled and abused at every corner...

While other groups, who are relative newcomers, and have large groups of followers that would prefer to see us all dead, get coddled and treated with kid gloves.

I want equality, for everyone. Not just the minorities, not just the easily offended, not just the newbies. Everyone.

This is pretty ef'd up. All though the problem isn't because of it being a church. It seems there are other projects on hold on the site because of a need to build the southern foundation wall which is needed for the entire site. This can't be done until some "land exchange" takes place. The length of the delay is totally wrong.

 

[TurboK9]

There were public hearings back in May.



.

And?

Is their a transcript of them? I'd love to read the minutes.

 

[TurboK9]

This is pretty ef'd up. All though the problem isn't because of it being a church. It seems there are other projects on hold on the site because of a need to build the southern foundation wall which is needed for the entire site. This can't be done until some "land exchange" takes place. The length of the delay is totally wrong.

It's been 9 years. There isn't shiat there. Still just a giant friggin' scar. They've had 9 years to make arrangements.

But this 'mosque' gets OK'ed virtually overnight, comparatively speaking, and pushed through. So yeah, I have a problem with it. And the more I dig, and find, and learn about the whole mess there, the more of a problem I have with it.

:shrug:

 

[awpitt]

And?

Is their a transcript of them? I'd love to read the minutes.

And, nothing.



One of your points was based on an assumption that no public hearings were held. That was an incorrect assumption in this case.

As far as transcripts, if you're that interested, Google might be a good place to start. I think there are some videos of the hearing on YouTube.

 

[TurboK9]

And, nothing.



One of your points was based on an assumption that no public hearings were held. That was an incorrect assumption in this case.

As far as transcripts, if you're that interested, Google might be a good place to start. I think there are some videos of the hearing on YouTube.

Never said they weren't. My understanding was that any and all protest was summarily dismissed (IE politics as usual) despite the overwhelming voices against it. Haven't taken the steps to read or watch though, I plan to.

 

[awpitt]

It's been 9 years. There isn't shiat there. Still just a giant friggin' scar. They've had 9 years to make arrangements.

But this 'mosque' gets OK'ed virtually overnight, comparatively speaking, and pushed through. So yeah, I have a problem with it. And the more I dig, and find, and learn about the whole mess there, the more of a problem I have with it.

:shrug:

Please reread my post.

This is pretty ef'd up. All though the problem isn't because of it being a church. It seems there are other projects on hold on the site because of a need to build the southern foundation wall which is needed for the entire site. This can't be done until some "land exchange" takes place. The length of the delay is totally wrong.

I'm agreeing with on this one. I just pointed out that the delay doesn't seem to be directed AT the church. There's other stuff involved. Still doesn't make it right though. Also, there are different goverment entities involved with each case we're talking about here. The Landmarks Preservation Commission approved the "mosque". The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is causing the delays in the church reconstruction.

 

[hooknline]

And, for the record, I do not think that Park 51 guy is some kindly good-hearted Muslim who wants peace for all mankind. I think he's an Islamic nutty instigator who is trying to provoke a violent reaction. Shoot, they know our culture and our laws better than we do - they know what they can and can't get away with, and what the non-consequences will be if they piss us off. We might burn a Koran! Woo woo!

If you get a chance, go to Dollar Tree and pick up "Chechen Jihad" if they still have one for you (yes I know; $1 dollar book??????) It is actually a very good book about their crazy ideology although also very threatening to us with some of their planning. For example; They had a conference with many Countries in attendance (several hundred Jihadists and Government contacts) that the agenda was long term planning for the establishment of a Muslum state not only in the Caucasus, but worldwide. They agreed that Russia, India, United states, and Great Britian and Israel was their primary enemy and target for their planning. They intend to use long term tactics which include training camps within controlled towns to benefit from any strikes caused by forces upposed to them and breaking out the "Civilian casualties Card". One of their tactics included training terroists for duty in the political offices anywhere they can obtain entrance. This is already happening in the war theatre with jihadists obtaining positions of authority and the above Governments are their real target for their strategy I am guessing.Imagine if the Jihadists were able to obtain House/Senate majority? When someone asked the speaker about destroying those Capitals, the reply was "Why destroy them when you can overthrow them and establish Allahs Laws" (Shairia) I think we are getting closer to defense against them by Governments sharing info although we as a world need much more sharing intel and striking them before they can strike us. Think about what would happen if those Radical Muslums could unite the entire Muslum world under their authority and guidance. We wouldn't be able to open a can of food without possibility of a terroist poisoning. The future is going to be a tough uphill battle and fight For us and we have no choice but to fight them.