the Beast Revelation

[michae1]

The Beast Revelation

This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.

 

[michae1]

The Beast Revelation part two

Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.

Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similtude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

May God bless all who read this letter.

Michae1

 

[Misfit]

Mark 13:32 New International Version (NIV) “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Except Jesus as savior and you won't be there anyway.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Hello Michae1 (Michael 1)?? I have to say that I have a number of disagreements with your dissertation. I really don't want to get into all of them but I'll address 2 of them. I'd also like to ask you where you get that information from if you would please tell me? Thanks.

The mark of the beast is not 666, that's the number of his name as revealed in "Gematria", an ancient system used to assign a numerical value to the letters of their alphabet. It refers to the number of the name of a first century person, not a modern day one. It is unlikely that any first century person would be able to calculate the number of a 21st century person. Not to mention that we don’t use that numbering method today (Gematria), so why would God ask us to? The number of the beast of Rev 13, then, was a warning for the people of John’s day and, when calculated properly, it most likely was Nero Caesar.

The mark of the beast is not a literal mark on the hand or forehead as many think. Nor is it a bar code. The references to taking the mark on the hand or forehead have beginnings in the OT. Exodus 13 v 9, 16, Deuteronomy 6 v 8, 11 v 18 refer to this figurative symbol. God wants His people to have His word close to their forehead (representing their beliefs) and His ways on their lips or hands (representing their words & actions). He even says write it on your doorposts and your gates. God’s people are marked but not with a magic marker or stamp. Even Cain was said to be marked by God so no one would kill him. The mark of the beast, then, is simply an association with the devil just as the symbolic mark on the forehead symbolizes association with Jesus the Lamb.

The other issue I have is with numerology. A NON biblical and dangerous practice of TRYING to MAKE the Bible say something it doesn't. Peter's writing about a day being as a thousand years and VV, has NOTHING to do with calculating when the world will end or Christ will return. It simply means that God isn't bound by space & time and sees everything as if it were in the present. What you said sounds like a Jack Van Impe or Harold Camping heresy.

Other than that....welcome to the forums.

 

[michae1]

Hello Michae1

The mark of the beast is not 666, that's the number of his name as revealed in "Gematria", an ancient system used to assign a numerical value to the letters of their alphabet. It refers to the number of the name of a first century person, not a modern day one. It is unlikely that any first century person would be able to calculate the number of a 21st century person. Not to mention that we don’t use that numbering method today (Gematria), so why would God ask us to? The number of the beast of Rev 13, then, was a warning for the people of John’s day and, when calculated properly, it most likely was Nero Caesar.

I believe gematria like I believe the world is flat. Can you show me one instance where gematria worked to predict or explain anything in the Bible? I mean, if it is a legitimate process for understanding hidden meaning, then there should be one example somewhere that can be seen and is common knowledge. I've heard these talking points many times.
"The people of first century Greece and Israel, they knew apocalyptic language and we are just ignorant of it. They use to write each other after this manner, and we have just lost the meaning." It feels a little condescending, always hearing the same ideas without any proof.
All I have heard from these people for years is speculation and conspiracy theories. If you study my letter, you will see that I am not giving you generalizations. I am giving straight to the point specifics. Another thing, you have not said anything, if you have not said everything. If you are going to explain prophecy, you have to address all the prophecies, not just whose name spells 666. There are many people whose name can spell 666. Michae1

 

[Starman3000m]

Hi Michae1, I read through your info and, like ItalianScallion, have some questions. What varies from traditional interpretation of Jesus being tempted in the wilderness you wrote the following:

[QUOTE="Michae1] ...The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven.[/QUOTE]

I will submit the following text from the Holy Bible that explains the account of when Satan tempts Jesus. Basically, Jesus' going into the wilderness occurs shortly after He is baptized by John and when the Voice from Heaven proclaims to those nearby that Jesus is The Son of God. i.e.

i.e. Referencing Scripture from Matthew - Chapters 3 & 4

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (Matthew 3:16-17)

Matthew Chapter 4:

1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

It appears that the "wilderness" referenced in Matthew Chapter 4 is a nearby geographical location from where Jesus had just been baptized. Satan's temptations of daring Jesus to turn rocks into bread, or proving He is the Son of God by jumping off a pinnacle or being shown great cities from a mountain top gives some credence that Jesus was actually still on earth in a literal wilderness where rocks were, and tempted on a mountain top - literally location(s) on earth.

There are a few other thoughts and questions I have about what you have submitted but I'll give you a chance to respond about the context of the Matthew Chapter 4 account.

Thanks

 

[ItalianScallion]

I believe gematria like I believe the world is flat. Can you show me one instance where gematria worked to predict or explain anything in the Bible? I mean, if it is a legitimate process for understanding hidden meaning, then there should be one example somewhere that can be seen and is common knowledge. If you study my letter, you will see that I am not giving you generalizations. I am giving straight to the point specifics. Another thing, you have not said anything, if you have not said everything. If you are going to explain prophecy, you have to address all the prophecies, not just whose name spells 666. There are many people whose name can spell 666. Michae1

You don't believe Gematria but you believe numerology? John spoke of Gematria by mentioning the number of the beast and yet you ask where it is in the Bible? Do you think God went and assigned a number to every beast?

You're trying to give "specifics"? Like that wilderness example? Many "specifics" are NOT available to us in Revelation so, again, would you tell me what person or belief system you follow please, so I'll know how to address these beliefs?

It appears that the "wilderness" referenced in Matthew Chapter 4 is a nearby geographical location from where Jesus had just been baptized. Satan's temptations of daring Jesus to turn rocks into bread, or proving He is the Son of God by jumping off a pinnacle or being shown great cities from a mountain top gives some credence that Jesus was actually still on earth in a literal wilderness where rocks were, and tempted on a mountain top - literally location(s) on earth.

That's another one. That wilderness was definitely NOT in Heaven. :herewegoagain:

 

[michae1]

The verses in reference to the wilderness appear in Isaiah 35. This passage appears to me to be part of a word substitution parable, similar to the other parables I have written about. I also made the comment that I could not prove this. If you choose not to believe it, it really does not detract much from the letter. The point I was trying to make I made in other ways. I wanted to make the point that Satan has access to Earth and Heaven, just as in the Job account. There are so many people who believe Satan has already been kicked out of Heaven, which is wrong. Once he is kicked out of Heaven, he will only have access to the Earth. He is kicked out in Revelation 12 for three and a half years. Revelation 12 has not happened yet, but based on the other information I have written, that event cannot be far off.

Here are the verses in question. I have enboldened some of the key words which describe the wilderness. It appears that the wilderness is where the redeemed of the Lord walk. That would be heaven in my eyes. Now, is that where Jesus was tempted? I can't prove it, but Satan did take him to a high mountain. He took him a few places. Satan himself is a spirit. I believe Jesus was in the spirit also. He talked with Satan. He went places with Satan. He could very easily have went to heaven, the wilderness, where the redeemed of the Lord walk and showed him all those things. I don't discount it, but I can't prove it. I probably should not have written it.

__________________________________

Isaiah 35
1The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

2It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.

3Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees.

4Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

5Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.

6Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.

7And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes.

8And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

9No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

10And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

 

[Starman3000m]

Thank you for your explanation Michae1.

In referencing Scripture, it is fairly easy to have varying interpretations and if one does not consider complete context it is easy to arrive at a different conclusion. That's why there are so many denominational differences and yet there has got to be Only One Truth to the meaning.

Regarding the "Wilderness" account that we are discussing, the Bible mentions several accounts of Jesus being active in His ministry but it is always within the confines of while being here on earth and then later after His Resurrection - still appearing on earth but only for a short while afterward.

And, the only time that the Bible mentions Satan being in Heaven is in the beginning when Satan rebelled and was expelled out of Heaven never to be there again but to be cast out of Heaven completely.

Now, I'm sure that we can agree that there is a spiritual (unseen) dimension where Satan and his minions are active that may not be confined to the earth but it is different than the Heavenly abode where Satan was originally cast out of along with the fallen angels that sided with him against God.

Even then, that does not imply that such spiritual dimension is where Jesus went into to be tempted because the description of the wilderness is a place where there are tangible things like rocks, pinnacle of a temple tower and mountains.

If you recall, all manifestations pertaining to Jesus occurred while He was on earth including the account of transfiguration: Matthew 17:2; Mark 9:2

The only account we have of Jesus first going up to Heaven (not the wilderness) is after His Resurrection. The Bible even indicates that when He was first seen, immediately following His Resurrection, He had not yet ascended to Heaven.

Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. (John 20:17)

Later, in a following account, Jesus then allows Himself to be touched in the side by Thomas, the disciple who had doubted the news that Jesus had resurrected. (John 20:26-29)

The point is that while Satan's dominion of influence has him roaming about the earth as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour,( 1Peter 5:8) he and his minions are working within a spiritual dimension - but not in Heaven where God is.

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. (Ephesians 2:1-3)

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. (Ephesians 6:11-13)

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8:37-39)

 

[StoneThrower]

Thank you for your explanation Michae1.

And, the only time that the Bible mentions Satan being in Heaven is in the beginning when Satan rebelled and was expelled out of Heaven never to be there again but to be cast out of Heaven completely.

He was cast out of heaven, but still has access to God as he's called the accuser of the brethern. In the future he will be cast out completley, but for now he still has access as we see in Job.

 

[Starman3000m]

He was cast out of heaven, but still has access to God as he's called the accuser of the brethern. In the future he will be cast out completley, but for now he still has access as we see in Job.

Okay StoneThrower, have to give a response on this. (Then onto my vacation)

Satan has access to God - True! But that doesn't necessarily mean that Satan is allowed back into the realm of the Heavenly abode from which he was cast out of in order to have that access. Fact is, if you are a born-again believer, you too have access to God this very minute and can petition your prayers accordingly for God's Will to be done in your life. I think it's fairly safe to say that believers who have such access to God whereby He hears their petitions are not in Heaven but within the workings of the Holy Spirit's intercession.

So, yes, in the Book of Job, Satan conversed with God just like the Prophets conversed with God and yet they were not in Heaven. Satan can accuse the bretheren all he wants but his accusations have no merit against those who have been saved by the Blood of God's Lamb.

Also, remember that God had a reprimand against Satan in Genesis Chapter 3 which took place on earth since Satan had already been cast out of Heaven.

So, access? Yes. Having to actually be in Heaven to have that access right now or during the time of Job - not necessary.

Our Access to God. Priceless!

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16)

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. (1 John 5:13-15)

 

[McGinn77]

The Beast Revelation part two

Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican....

Allow me to point out the largest hole in the "Earth is 6000" years old theory. And I'm not going to use science, or archaeology. I'm not going to pull a page from what people call "the atheists' play book". Let me just ask you this question.

<b>Where, in the bible, is it stated, that the events of the new testament IMMEDIATELY follow the events of the old testament?</b> If you're saying that the events of the old testament took 4000 years, and we are about 2000 years from the beginning of the new testament, where is it even implied that the two sections occur back-to-back?

 

[michae1]

<b>Where, in the bible, is it stated, that the events of the new testament IMMEDIATELY follow the events of the old testament?</b> If you're saying that the events of the old testament took 4000 years, and we are about 2000 years from the beginning of the new testament, where is it even implied that the two sections occur back-to-back?

History implies that they are back-to-back. The Bible lists a succession of empires that would occur at their appointed times. These were the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Medes and Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans. If you went back to secular historians, you would find this succession. The Jews history stops at the new testament because they rejected Christ. A quick look at the Jewish year has to give you some indication. The year is 5772. Somewhere in that succession of time two hundred plus years have been lost. It is nearly the year 6000. This can be derived because of the way prophecies are happening as expressed in my letter.

In regards to your remark about the Earth being six thousand years old, I think you have been misled by some of the so-called Christian teachers that have made numerous mistakes along the way. Jesus spoke in parables to confuse the unworthy. Some people are not supposed to know and will never know. The Earth is millions of years old. It only became null and void. It was here all along. Something caused the sun not to shine, and that something was removed. This could have been a volcano, which blotted out the sun for tens of years. Nothing grows without sunlight, once the sun came back the world began to grow again, and so forth. People have a tendency to want to believe the ridiculous when in fact there is always a logical explanation. Still, Christianity requires a belief in God. If you don't believe in God, then none of it is possible. Michae1

 

[ItalianScallion]

The Jews history stops at the new testament because they rejected Christ.

Dude, you need to get a clue. The NT started when Jesus died and the "Jews history" didn't stop there...

In regards to your remark about the Earth being six thousand years old, I think you have been mislead by some of the so-called Christian teachers that have made numerous mistakes along the way. Jesus spoke in parables to confuse the unworthy. Some people are not supposed to know and will never know. The Earth is millions of years old. It only became null and void. It was here all along. Something caused the sun not to shine, and that something was removed. This could have been a volcano, which blotted out the sun for tens of years. Nothing grows without sunlight, once the sun came back the world began to grow again, and so forth. People have a tendency to want to believe the ridiculous when in fact there is always a logical explanation. Still, Christianity requires a belief in God. If you don't believe in God, then none of it is possible. Michae1

WHO'S BEEN MISLED?? Christians? Still waiting to hear what heretic you listen to You just said something the Bible doesn't say, so therefore you shouldn't either. Even Christians do NOT know the age of the earth and neither do scientists. That about it becoming null & void is heresy. God created everything out of nothing.

 

[michae1]

WHO'S BEEN MISLED?? Christians? Still waiting to hear what heretic you listen to You just said something the Bible doesn't say, so therefore you shouldn't either. Even Christians do NOT know the age of the earth and neither do scientists. That about it becoming null & void is heresy. God created everything out of nothing.

Since ignoring you was not enough, I'll be a little more direct. I'm not going to answer that. The question you ask is none of your business. Do you think if you ask me ten times I will tell you? What you need to do is study my words. Discuss with me based on my words. If you disagree, say so, and leave. I'm not going to answer every question. If the facts are not enough, talk to someone else. Michae1

 

[Zguy28]

Hello Michae1 (Michael 1)?? I have to say that I have a number of disagreements with your dissertation. I really don't want to get into all of them but I'll address 2 of them. I'd also like to ask you where you get that information from if you would please tell me? Thanks.

The mark of the beast is not 666, that's the number of his name as revealed in "Gematria", an ancient system used to assign a numerical value to the letters of their alphabet. It refers to the number of the name of a first century person, not a modern day one. It is unlikely that any first century person would be able to calculate the number of a 21st century person. Not to mention that we don’t use that numbering method today (Gematria), so why would God ask us to? The number of the beast of Rev 13, then, was a warning for the people of John’s day and, when calculated properly, it most likely was Nero Caesar.

The mark of the beast is not a literal mark on the hand or forehead as many think. Nor is it a bar code. The references to taking the mark on the hand or forehead have beginnings in the OT. Exodus 13 v 9, 16, Deuteronomy 6 v 8, 11 v 18 refer to this figurative symbol. God wants His people to have His word close to their forehead (representing their beliefs) and His ways on their lips or hands (representing their words & actions). He even says write it on your doorposts and your gates. God’s people are marked but not with a magic marker or stamp. Even Cain was said to be marked by God so no one would kill him. The mark of the beast, then, is simply an association with the devil just as the symbolic mark on the forehead symbolizes association with Jesus the Lamb.

The other issue I have is with numerology. A NON biblical and dangerous practice of TRYING to MAKE the Bible say something it doesn't. Peter's writing about a day being as a thousand years and VV, has NOTHING to do with calculating when the world will end or Christ will return. It simply means that God isn't bound by space & time and sees everything as if it were in the present. What you said sounds like a Jack Van Impe or Harold Camping heresy.

Other than that....welcome to the forums.

 

[Zguy28]

Allow me to point out the largest hole in the "Earth is 6000" years old theory. And I'm not going to use science, or archaeology. I'm not going to pull a page from what people call "the atheists' play book". Let me just ask you this question.

<b>Where, in the bible, is it stated, that the events of the new testament IMMEDIATELY follow the events of the old testament?</b> If you're saying that the events of the old testament took 4000 years, and we are about 2000 years from the beginning of the new testament, where is it even implied that the two sections occur back-to-back?

There is a ~400 year gap (unless you accept the apocryphal book of Maccabees as Scripture). We know this from the Gospels and the historical record such as when Herod the Great reigned.

 

[Radiant1]

The Catholic bible contains 1&2 Maccabees, no historical gap.

And speaking of Macabees, happy Chanuka!

 

[ItalianScallion]

Since ignoring you was not enough, I'll be a little more direct. I'm not going to answer that. The question you ask is none of your business. Do you think if you ask me ten times I will tell you? What you need to do is study my words. Discuss with me based on my words. If you disagree, say so, and leave. I'm not going to answer every question. If the facts are not enough, talk to someone else. Michae1

Sooo childish & typical. I've read your words and I'm simply looking for the reason behind them so I'll know WHY you believe this way. It's not like I'm not asking for your address & phone number! It's obvious that you're listening to a bad teacher(s) or are trying to interpret the Bible w/o the help of the Spirit. Either way, you'll probably be ignored by the majority of us on here because of your childish attitude and incorrect doctrine. Sorry you can't keep it civil; you might have learned something...

BTW; This is a public forum; a place where we all discuss a thread back & forth. You might try locking the thread so only YOUR words will be seen and no one will ask you questions that ruffle your feathers...

 

[foodcritic]

Prewrath Resource Institute