Enron

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Am I just stupid?  I can't figure out why this is a Bush scandal.  Is it because he received campaign money from them?  If so, then why is only the Bush administration taking heat when Enron gave to Democrats as well, including Young Willie Jeff?  Is it a media creation?  A few people on TV said Bush may get impeached over this.

Someone explain this whole thing to me, please.  If no one responds, I'll understand and figure you all don't understand it either.
 

Frank

Chairman of the Board
DJ, I can't see it either. I think at first blush, there were people salivating at the thought of a nice, juicy scandal that would bring Bush down. Further, since more money went to Republicans, some think there must have been some kind of quid pro quo.

I'm unconvinced that this is a 'political' scandal. I think there are those who can't believe there can BE scandal without politics (actually, somewhere in MY gut, I think it's probably Willie Jeff's doing). I'm not sure what to make of it, but you can bet that *somehow*, someone will succeed in passing some pointless election finance bill, because apparently half the Hill got money from Enron.
 
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BigBrothaCon

Guest
I think it is a behind the scenes Gore conspiracy to get Bush impeached along with Cheney to get some payback on losing the election....Well maybe not, but it does sound good.  Anyway, I don't understand how anyone would think Bush needs to get impeached over this.  As far as I can tell, just about everyone from Bush to Congress to Clinton received campaign contributions from Enron.  Did that buy any influence in the Bush administration?  As far as I can tell no, but as far as Clinton is concerned it did.  Ken Lay even got to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom for all his contributions to the DNC.  Democrats are on a fishing expedition and the American people are just not buying it.  Enron screwed up themselves and the executives need to pay for all the wrongdoing they committed.
 
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Bruzilla

Guest
I'm shocked that so many people don't seem to understand the fall of Enron and the involvement with the President and Vice-President.  Let me explain it to you...

First, Enron paid major dollars to Bush and Cheney... in fact I believe Enron was the largest single contributor to their campaign.  This money obviously bought a lot of influence with the White House because when Enron came to the administration looking for assistance they were told "Sorry, but we aren't going to help you."  So this clearly shows that all of that money bought no influence at the White House.  

Oooops... my bad... That doesn't sound right.  Here's the real conspiracy.  Enron executives swindled investors by selling stock that they knew was worthless for top dollar (an illegal act).  They also didn't tell their shareholders that the stock was worthless so that they could take part in the illegal swindle.  So there's your scandal... the White House didn't take actions that would allow thousands of Enron shareholders to break the same laws, and swindle the same people, as the Execs did.  Wait a minute... that doesn't sound right either.

Ok... here's the real scandal.  When Cheney was developing the National Energy Plan, he put in several items that directly benefited Enron.  Of course he also put in items that directly benefited just about every energy producer as well.  So he had a quid-pro-quo working with Enron and every other energy company whether they donated generously to his campaign or not.  That is the... hmmmm... I guess I am confused too. :)

I guess the only real scandal here, aside from the pin heads at Enron and Arthur Anderson, would be the way that the media is trying to play all this up. :)
 
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BigBrothaCon

Guest
First of all Bruzilla,

You need to change your avatar because I had it first.

Secondly, good explanation.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Jellybean,

I really don't see how discussing what you had for lunch helps anything...

Kiss kiss puddin! (hic!)
 

jellybean

Member
Larry-

I think if we take enough of the fifths for lunch-we won't give a hoot about the political scandals...Isn't that how the politicians do it?

Next time we come to visit, don't worry about the fifths-just stock up on the Amberbock for me...ok I know Corona or nothin' right?

Just send flowers!! :-x
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Why is the Enron mess a political scandal? My guess is that Bush's economic stimulus package would have given Enron a $254 million tax rebate.

Here are two items of interest from the Fort-Worth Star Telegram:


http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/columnists/molly_ivins/2575851.htm

http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/columnists/molly_ivins/2667749.htm
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Also, how did I end up with Betty Boop's picture on my post? Could someone change it to Yosemite Sam for me?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Ah, Molly Ivins - that great political thinker! :roflmao:

Well, by golly, that settles it - if Molly Ivins says Bush is guilty, we better get out the handcuffs.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
vraiblonde, I agree with you that Molly Ivins is WAY too harsh on George W. I posted links to her columns because that was the only place I saw the information about the Enron tax rebate.

As far as I'm concerned, if you blame Bush you should blame Clinton too. Didn't Willie treat Ken Lay to a night's stay in the Lincoln bedroom? And sure, both Clinton and Bush should be held accountable.

But the real culprits are the Enron execs who spent tons of money buying influence with both Democrats and Republicans. It's prostitution--the politicians are the whores, and the Enron execs are the johns. Whores only sell their wares when they know they have customers. Big donors like Enron don't shower money on candidates without expecting something in return, such as a favorable energy policy. It may or may not be illegal, but it's pretty damn outrageous.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
It's not that Molly is too hard on Bush - it's that she's a hypocrite and a flat-out liar.

Being neither here nor there, I think that corporations should be able to give whatever money they want to whatever candidate they feel best represents their interests.  This is America and you should be able to spend your money any way you please.  This whole campaign finance reform thing is about as un-Constitutional as it gets.

All big corporations give money to political candidates.  Some also take a financial dive.  What does one thing have to do with the other?  Apparently Enron tried to get a bailout from Bush and was told to pack sand.  So where's the scandal?  Bush's economic package would have given many corporations a tax cut, not just Enron.  That's a good thing, not a bad thing.
 

jellybean

Member
Buch, Chaney, Joe Schmoe...  this sounds like a clear case of blame everyone else rather that those who should get the blame...Enron Execs! Sadly it looks like they are going to get away with this.  
 

TrueBlue

Member
                
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Lay in the Lincoln Bedroom

BigBrothaCon said at 10:00 am on Jan. 30, 2002:
Ken Lay even got to stay in the Lincoln Bedroom for all his contributions to the DNC [Democratic National Committee].

Similarly, Tonio said at 12:35 pm on Feb. 21, 2002:
As far as I'm concerned, if you blame Bush you should blame Clinton too. Didn't Willie treat Ken Lay to a night's stay in the Lincoln bedroom?

Actually, guys, Ken Lay never stayed in the Lincoln Bedroom during the Clinton Administration. But who could blame you for thinking he did? Every Republican “talking head” in the media has been busy spreading that false rumor whenever the word “Enron” is mentioned.  

But just last week, The Washington Times at http://www.washingtontimes.com/business/20020222-9724038.htm
printed a correction saying that Ken Lay never slept in the Clinton White House, contrary to what it and other media sources earlier reported.

Also, Salon magazine at http://www.salon.com/politics/col/spinsanity/2002/02/21/lincoln/index.html did a story on how the GOP spun this urban myth into Washington conventional wisdom. As proof, the article also provides links to comprehensive lists of Clinton’s White House sleep-over and coffee guests (Lay isn’t listed).

For the record, Mr. Lay has slept in the Lincoln Bedroom, but while a different president was in the White House: George Herbert Walker Bush, as noted in the Salon article, as well as in http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/677681.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22448-2001Dec24.html
and http://www.publicampaign.org/ouch01_11_02.htm

                     
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Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Thanks for the info, TrueBlue! I didn't know if that story was accurate or not.

To me, the fact that the Bush Administration did nothing to get Enron out of trouble is not the scandal. I want to know what influence Enron had in shaping Bush's energy policy in Texas and in Washington. Unlike the Democrats in Congress, I'm not assuming that Enron bought this influence through campaign contributions. If it did happen, that's the scandal. Unfortunately, we may never know the answer. The Dems' investigation seems driven by their zeal for retribution for the Whitewater investigations, when their boy got caught with his fly unzipped.

My point? Political influence shouldn't be bought and sold like cattle futures. That is unAmerican. The people we elect to office should be responsible to the voters, not to contributors or special interest groups.

I mean, look at our own governor, Glendening. This guy is practically owned by the labor unions. He delayed the much-needed Wilson Bridge replacement because he insisted on set-asides for union labor. I'm not even particularly anti-union or pro-union, and it really irks me that Glendening would have taken my tax money to pay back his financial supporters.
 

TrueBlue

Member
Did Enron Get Payback for its Campaign Contributions?

Tonio on 6:38 am on Feb. 26, 2002[br]To me, the fact that the Bush Administration did nothing to get Enron out of trouble is not the scandal. I want to know what influence Enron had in shaping Bush's energy policy in Texas and in Washington.
You hit the nail on the head, Tonio. That’s a question I’ve been pursuing myself. Thus far, here’s what I see:

The real Enron scandal isn’t about Bush helping the company on its way down (when it was facing bankruptcy); it’s about Bush helping the company while it was still on its way up (and still able to write the big campaign checks).

Once the company was heading for the dumpster, of course the White House didn’t offer any kind of bailout. Bush would have to be even dumber than some people claim he is to go out on a limb for the company just when its cooked books were making all the headlines.

But before the company’s collapse, there was a long history of Enron’s contributions to the Bush campaign paying off -- as VP Cheney would say -- “Big Time.”

On energy policy, economic policy, and tax policy, Dubya’s buddy “Kenny Boy” got pretty much whatever he asked for. Here are some examples of the special influence and power given Enron by the Dubya White House.[/i] (I’ll save his years as governor for another post) :

1.  Enron got to significantly shape the administration’s energy policy. Lay had six secret meetings with Cheney (more than anyone else), which resulted in 17 major concessions to Enron, putting the company in a position to gain more from the new policy than any other company in America.
http://www.corpwatch.org/news/PND.jsp?articleid=1376
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/08/politics/main323646.shtml

2.  Enron execs’ inputs were written into the Economic Stimulus Bill, including a provision to reimburse companies for the Alternative Minimum Tax they paid a decade ago. This would give Enron a $254 million rebate check, although for 4 years since they paid zero taxes.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/694848.asp
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1213610

3.  Lay got to interview candidates and ultimately handpick the chairman of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, the watchdog agency overseeing and regulating his company’s industry.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/697801.asp
http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/020602.html

4.  Enron received the dedicated services of National Security Council (NSC) staff to muscle India into buying an Enron power plant there. This continued even after Sept. 11, when the NSC needed to win India’s support in fighting terrorism. Administration documents show that Bush and the NSC placed Enron’s interests “on par with or ahead of U.S. national security interests."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34646-2002Jan24.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/020602.html

5.  From the beginning, Ken Lay has been an influential Bush advisor, for personnel as well as policy. Several Enron executives and associates were appointed to powerful positions, including: Larry Lindsay, the White House Chief Economic Advisor; Robert Zoellick, the U.S. Trade Representative; Thomas E. White, Jr., Sec. of the Army; and Marc Racicot, Chairman of the Republican National Committee, who was and still is a lobbyist for Enron.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002/02/01/enron.htm
http://www.latimes.com/templates/misc/printstory.jsp?slug=la%2d000010256feb10

6.  Shortly after taking office, the Bush administration announced it would "review" a Clinton administration move to crack down on countries whose lax banking regulations permit U.S. companies to hide money in offshore tax havens. With the crackdown delayed, Enron and others could continue to hide profit -- and debt -- in the Cayman Islands and other offshore accounts,  thus making the company appear more profitable to investors.
http://www.sptimes.com/2002/01/19/Worldandnation/Enron_allies_helped_s.shtml
http://www.populist.com/02.3.edit.html

7.  Enron opposed the price caps widely recommended as a fix for the California Energy Crisis (Remember the rolling blackouts and austere conservation efforts?) The Bush administration not only rejected price caps, but also used Lay’s talking points to explain why.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/696828.asp
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0106/ridgeway3.php

Throughout his political career, GW Bush has maintained a mutual back-scratching relationship with Enron execs. And once in the White House, he handed Enron all the power and influence it needed to rig the system to its own advantage. So much so that it’s hard to tell where Enron begins and the Executive Branch leaves off.

The GOP used to brag that Dubya would run the White House like a business. But who knew that it would mean a government “of the Corporation, by the Corporation, and for the Corporation”?
                 
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Otter

Nothing to see here
TrueBlue on 10:07 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br]And once in the White House, he handed Enron all the power and influence it needed to rig the system to its own advantage. So much so that it?s hard to tell where Enron begins and the Executive Branch leaves off.


Amazing...he could do all that in ONE year...Leave the links off your next post and say what you mean.  You're partisan and can't get over the last election. Get over it.
 

TrueBlue

Member
otter on 11:24 pm on Feb. 28, 2002[br][Amazing...he could do all that in ONE year
Actually, he got plenty of practice during the years he was governor of TX, and even before that. Gov. Bush paid back Enron very well for huge campaign contributions and Ken Lay’s campaign organizing and fundraising efforts, as well as his public endorsement. http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/020602.html

1.  As governor of that state, GW Bush gave Enron the environmental loopholes it asked for. Consequently, Enron avoided the legislated mandate to install costly pollution-control equipment by obtaining a "grandfather" exemption to Texas law permitting Enron to continue to pollute. http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/tuesday/news_14.html

2.  At the request of Ken Lay, Governor Bush called Governor Tom Ridge of PA to help Enron break into that state’s recently deregulated energy market. Soon after, Enron cracked into the PA market, giving it a new regional foothold.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0210-04.htm

3.  Gov. Bush essentially let Enron execs draft the state tax plan. This attempt to overhaul the state’s tax system would have saved Enron at least $9 million a year. http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/tuesday/news_14.html

4.  Governor Bush appointed a Lay-endorsed candidate as chairman of the Texas Public Utility Commission, which was a major boost to the company’s efforts to deregulate the state’s energy market. http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/020602.html   The governor also acted on Lay’s recommendation for the chairman of the State Board of Public Accountancy. http://www.newsday.com/business/natioinworl/wire

5.  Even Before Dubya became Texas governor, he paid Enron back for contributions to his father’s 1988 presidential campaign. GW Bush called an Argentine administration official to put a plug in for Enron’s proposal to build an energy pipeline in that country. The official said the U.S. president-elect’s son told him awarding the contract to Enron would be “very favorable to Argentina’s relations with the U.S.” http://thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20020204&s=corn
http://www.consortiumnews.com/Print/020602.html

Leave the links off your next post and say what you mean.
Thanks for the friendly advice, but I’ll keep citing sources. Otherwise, someone is sure to say I’m making this stuff up.  

You're partisan and can't get over the last election. Get over it.
Me? Partisan? Yep, guilty as charged, although not as much as some earlier posters in this thread who were ready to blame the Enron debacle on President Clinton, without providing a shred of evidence to support it.

Get over it? Whenever a Republican tells us Democrats to “get over” the election (you know, the one where Gore got over a half-million more votes?), I say this: We’ll get over it when you guys “get over” blaming President Clinton for everything that has gone wrong on Dubya’s watch (i.e., the Recession, Enron, 9-11, the Israeli/Palestinian situation, the Pretzel Incident, etc.).
 
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