unequal pay
- Thread starter Dakota
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
That is cute and entertaining and misses the point by miles and miles and miles. It, if you think about it, makes the argument that we are all equal, that there is nothing special about us, nothing unique, and we are all, simply put, just a bunch of monkeys with no discernible differences.
And, if you think about it, that is how this argument of equal pay for equal work seeks to treat you; like you, we, are just monkeys.
Now, as we move into the real world, we start to see the profound and obvious differences in people. We should do a similar experiment but, with people. Not with cages, just two job sites, a starting time and a task and see what happens. We'd add in where our two test subjects live, their personal lives, their route to work, how they get to work, a bus, walk, a reliable car, a clunker, ALL the variables, spouses, kids, their individual hopes and dreams and aspirations, ALL the myriad things that make us human and not two identical monkeys in cages.
Before long, we'd see one test subject is more reliable because they are an early riser or don't have kids to worry about or like being early to work or take a better route to work avoiding traffic or makes less stops for gas because they got it on the way home the night before or bring their own coffee instead of stopping or lives closer or maintains concentration better because they don't drink, likes the work better, is faster, stronger, more coordinated, has a personality more oriented towards doing a better job or, or, or, or.
All of a sudden, our two identical 'monkeys' doing identical work are NOT identical and are NOT producing equally.
One may need more pep talks or takes longer to learn new tasks or has migraines or her period is worse or he stares out the window longer or posts on SOMD more often or is accident prone or, well, a touch lazy, or is daydreaming or, gets sick more often or, or, or.
Equal work and equal pay is intellectual laziness at its finest. We may be created equally but that is where it ends and no two of us are going to do the exact same work with the exact same results with the exact same 'inputs' and management needs.
Now, we can argue that if you're supposed to do 10 tasks a day that are within certain parameters and that if you and I accomplish them, our 10 a day, then we should get exactly the same pay but, that simply ain't real world. We are not two identical moneys doing the identical things for dissimilar pay.
Frankly, folks should see this readily but, for whatever reasons, we don't. Anyone who has EVER worked with another person, to move a piece of furniture, to rake leaves together, to work in the kitchen together, to figure something out together knows, fact certain, we ain't all equal. Not by a long shot. Leadership, attitude, cooperativeness, attitude, intuition, attitude, critical thinking, attitude...did I mention ATTITUDE?????
The point if this video should be terribly insulting to ANY thinking person if the point is, as the professor indicated, that this is us, that this is the OWS protest. I promise you that within his example, OWS, there were people who did WAY more than others and people who did WAY less than average and people who made things easier and some who made things harder. All as they sang Kum by yah and praised the collective.
Good lord, people. Maybe we descended from animals but, we're not animals.
We are...
...people.
And, if you think about it, that is how this argument of equal pay for equal work seeks to treat you; like you, we, are just monkeys.
Now, as we move into the real world, we start to see the profound and obvious differences in people. We should do a similar experiment but, with people. Not with cages, just two job sites, a starting time and a task and see what happens. We'd add in where our two test subjects live, their personal lives, their route to work, how they get to work, a bus, walk, a reliable car, a clunker, ALL the variables, spouses, kids, their individual hopes and dreams and aspirations, ALL the myriad things that make us human and not two identical monkeys in cages.
Before long, we'd see one test subject is more reliable because they are an early riser or don't have kids to worry about or like being early to work or take a better route to work avoiding traffic or makes less stops for gas because they got it on the way home the night before or bring their own coffee instead of stopping or lives closer or maintains concentration better because they don't drink, likes the work better, is faster, stronger, more coordinated, has a personality more oriented towards doing a better job or, or, or, or.
All of a sudden, our two identical 'monkeys' doing identical work are NOT identical and are NOT producing equally.
One may need more pep talks or takes longer to learn new tasks or has migraines or her period is worse or he stares out the window longer or posts on SOMD more often or is accident prone or, well, a touch lazy, or is daydreaming or, gets sick more often or, or, or.
Equal work and equal pay is intellectual laziness at its finest. We may be created equally but that is where it ends and no two of us are going to do the exact same work with the exact same results with the exact same 'inputs' and management needs.
Now, we can argue that if you're supposed to do 10 tasks a day that are within certain parameters and that if you and I accomplish them, our 10 a day, then we should get exactly the same pay but, that simply ain't real world. We are not two identical moneys doing the identical things for dissimilar pay.
Frankly, folks should see this readily but, for whatever reasons, we don't. Anyone who has EVER worked with another person, to move a piece of furniture, to rake leaves together, to work in the kitchen together, to figure something out together knows, fact certain, we ain't all equal. Not by a long shot. Leadership, attitude, cooperativeness, attitude, intuition, attitude, critical thinking, attitude...did I mention ATTITUDE?????
The point if this video should be terribly insulting to ANY thinking person if the point is, as the professor indicated, that this is us, that this is the OWS protest. I promise you that within his example, OWS, there were people who did WAY more than others and people who did WAY less than average and people who made things easier and some who made things harder. All as they sang Kum by yah and praised the collective.
Good lord, people. Maybe we descended from animals but, we're not animals.
We are...
...people.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That is cute and entertaining and misses the point by miles and miles and miles. It, if you think about it, makes the argument that we are all equal, that there is nothing special about us, nothing unique, and we are all, simply put, just a bunch of monkeys with no discernible differences.
And, if you think about it, that is how this argument of equal pay for equal work seeks to treat you; like you, we, are just monkeys.
Now, as we move into the real world, we start to see the profound and obvious differences in people. We should do a similar experiment but, with people. Not with cages, just two job sites, a starting time and a task and see what happens. We'd add in where our two test subjects live, their personal lives, their route to work, how they get to work, a bus, walk, a reliable car, a clunker, ALL the variables, spouses, kids, their individual hopes and dreams and aspirations, ALL the myriad things that make us human and not two identical monkeys in cages.
Before long, we'd see one test subject is more reliable because they are an early riser or don't have kids to worry about or like being early to work or take a better route to work avoiding traffic or makes less stops for gas because they got it on the way home the night before or bring their own coffee instead of stopping or lives closer or maintains concentration better because they don't drink, likes the work better, is faster, stronger, more coordinated, has a personality more oriented towards doing a better job or, or, or, or.
All of a sudden, our two identical 'monkeys' doing identical work are NOT identical and are NOT producing equally.
One may need more pep talks or takes longer to learn new tasks or has migraines or her period is worse or he stares out the window longer or posts on SOMD more often or is accident prone or, well, a touch lazy, or is daydreaming or, gets sick more often or, or, or.
Equal work and equal pay is intellectual laziness at its finest. We may be created equally but that is where it ends and no two of us are going to do the exact same work with the exact same results with the exact same 'inputs' and management needs.
Now, we can argue that if you're supposed to do 10 tasks a day that are within certain parameters and that if you and I accomplish them, our 10 a day, then we should get exactly the same pay but, that simply ain't real world. We are not two identical moneys doing the identical things for dissimilar pay.
Frankly, folks should see this readily but, for whatever reasons, we don't. Anyone who has EVER worked with another person, to move a piece of furniture, to rake leaves together, to work in the kitchen together, to figure something out together knows, fact certain, we ain't all equal. Not by a long shot. Leadership, attitude, cooperativeness, attitude, intuition, attitude, critical thinking, attitude...did I mention ATTITUDE?????
The point if this video should be terribly insulting to ANY thinking person if the point is, as the professor indicated, that this is us, that this is the OWS protest. I promise you that within his example, OWS, there were people who did WAY more than others and people who did WAY less than average and people who made things easier and some who made things harder. All as they sang Kum by yah and praised the collective.
Good lord, people. Maybe we descended from animals but, we're not animals.
We are...
...people.
Do we all like and value grapes equally? Cucumbers? Money?
And, if you think about it, that is how this argument of equal pay for equal work seeks to treat you; like you, we, are just monkeys.
Now, as we move into the real world, we start to see the profound and obvious differences in people. We should do a similar experiment but, with people. Not with cages, just two job sites, a starting time and a task and see what happens. We'd add in where our two test subjects live, their personal lives, their route to work, how they get to work, a bus, walk, a reliable car, a clunker, ALL the variables, spouses, kids, their individual hopes and dreams and aspirations, ALL the myriad things that make us human and not two identical monkeys in cages.
Before long, we'd see one test subject is more reliable because they are an early riser or don't have kids to worry about or like being early to work or take a better route to work avoiding traffic or makes less stops for gas because they got it on the way home the night before or bring their own coffee instead of stopping or lives closer or maintains concentration better because they don't drink, likes the work better, is faster, stronger, more coordinated, has a personality more oriented towards doing a better job or, or, or, or.
All of a sudden, our two identical 'monkeys' doing identical work are NOT identical and are NOT producing equally.
One may need more pep talks or takes longer to learn new tasks or has migraines or her period is worse or he stares out the window longer or posts on SOMD more often or is accident prone or, well, a touch lazy, or is daydreaming or, gets sick more often or, or, or.
Equal work and equal pay is intellectual laziness at its finest. We may be created equally but that is where it ends and no two of us are going to do the exact same work with the exact same results with the exact same 'inputs' and management needs.
Now, we can argue that if you're supposed to do 10 tasks a day that are within certain parameters and that if you and I accomplish them, our 10 a day, then we should get exactly the same pay but, that simply ain't real world. We are not two identical moneys doing the identical things for dissimilar pay.
Frankly, folks should see this readily but, for whatever reasons, we don't. Anyone who has EVER worked with another person, to move a piece of furniture, to rake leaves together, to work in the kitchen together, to figure something out together knows, fact certain, we ain't all equal. Not by a long shot. Leadership, attitude, cooperativeness, attitude, intuition, attitude, critical thinking, attitude...did I mention ATTITUDE?????
The point if this video should be terribly insulting to ANY thinking person if the point is, as the professor indicated, that this is us, that this is the OWS protest. I promise you that within his example, OWS, there were people who did WAY more than others and people who did WAY less than average and people who made things easier and some who made things harder. All as they sang Kum by yah and praised the collective.
Good lord, people. Maybe we descended from animals but, we're not animals.
We are...
...people.
Do we all like and value grapes equally? Cucumbers? Money?
BOP
Well-Known Member
What the hell happened there, with the two posts?
Personally, I cringe whenever I hear somebody going off about "unequal pay."
Here's an idea: why don't we, in addition to the government managing our healthcare (and doing a bang-up job), and trying to manage our retirements; why don't we have them pay us the same as well?
That way, a doctor can make the same exact amount of money as a Burger King employee, who makes the same exact amount as an accountant, who makes the same exact amount as a hooker....
Let's let the government set the prices of every single thing we purchase, so houses in inner city Detroit cost the same as mansions in the Hamptons, or lofts in Soho, or shacks in the bayous of Louisiana and Mississippi....
It's perfect. Especially since it's such a massive undertaking that huge numbers of us would end up working directly for the government, just to manage...well, every single thing in America.
Somebody (translation: some liberal knothead) said recently that the minimum wage ought to be $12.00 an hour. Mainly because she doesn't have to pay minimum wage to anyone.
Okay, that's good; let's go with $12.00 an hour. Every single working man or woman in America gets $12.00 an hour. Remember, education will be free.
So, if Johnny Snotnose goes to work for Larry, Johnny gets $12.00 an hour. Larry's doctor gets $12.00 an hour. The cop who pulled Johnny over for speeding makes $12.00 an hour. Mrs BOP, who is retired, makes $12.00 an hour from social insecurity. Isn't it great? Oh, and Sandra Fluke makes $12.00 an hour as a media whor...I mean, guest lecturer.
Well, what about the rest of it? Where does the government get the money it needs to run our lives for us? Well, that comes out of any profit Larry makes (and I make). See, Larry doesn't pay $12.00 an hour for Johnny's wages; that's just what Johnny makes. Hell, it's what everybody makes. Larry actually pays $24.00 an hour; the rest of it goes to taxes, insurance, and other stuff that we can't live without.
Naturally, the government will have to set the prices of things as well, so that people can both afford to buy stuff, and so that Larry makes a profit. Oh, about that profit thing, all that goes to the government, less his $12.00 an hour and the operating costs.
It'll take a while to work out how much Larry needs to sell stuff for in order to make his $12.00 an hour for his living wage, and to pay for his costs of doing business, but we'll get there, I promise! We're from the government, and we're here to help.
Trust us!
Personally, I cringe whenever I hear somebody going off about "unequal pay."
Here's an idea: why don't we, in addition to the government managing our healthcare (and doing a bang-up job), and trying to manage our retirements; why don't we have them pay us the same as well?
That way, a doctor can make the same exact amount of money as a Burger King employee, who makes the same exact amount as an accountant, who makes the same exact amount as a hooker....
Let's let the government set the prices of every single thing we purchase, so houses in inner city Detroit cost the same as mansions in the Hamptons, or lofts in Soho, or shacks in the bayous of Louisiana and Mississippi....
It's perfect. Especially since it's such a massive undertaking that huge numbers of us would end up working directly for the government, just to manage...well, every single thing in America.
Somebody (translation: some liberal knothead) said recently that the minimum wage ought to be $12.00 an hour. Mainly because she doesn't have to pay minimum wage to anyone.
Okay, that's good; let's go with $12.00 an hour. Every single working man or woman in America gets $12.00 an hour. Remember, education will be free.
So, if Johnny Snotnose goes to work for Larry, Johnny gets $12.00 an hour. Larry's doctor gets $12.00 an hour. The cop who pulled Johnny over for speeding makes $12.00 an hour. Mrs BOP, who is retired, makes $12.00 an hour from social insecurity. Isn't it great? Oh, and Sandra Fluke makes $12.00 an hour as a media whor...I mean, guest lecturer.
Well, what about the rest of it? Where does the government get the money it needs to run our lives for us? Well, that comes out of any profit Larry makes (and I make). See, Larry doesn't pay $12.00 an hour for Johnny's wages; that's just what Johnny makes. Hell, it's what everybody makes. Larry actually pays $24.00 an hour; the rest of it goes to taxes, insurance, and other stuff that we can't live without.
Naturally, the government will have to set the prices of things as well, so that people can both afford to buy stuff, and so that Larry makes a profit. Oh, about that profit thing, all that goes to the government, less his $12.00 an hour and the operating costs.
It'll take a while to work out how much Larry needs to sell stuff for in order to make his $12.00 an hour for his living wage, and to pay for his costs of doing business, but we'll get there, I promise! We're from the government, and we're here to help.
Trust us!
Was he a Federal employee?
BOP
Well-Known Member
Union member
Radiant1
Soul Probe
BOP
Well-Known Member
Is there much of a difference?
I resemble that remark.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
We're all federal employees now.
terbear1225
Well-Known Member
I will concede the point that sometimesunequal pay is based on unequal work, however i have been in a situation where unequal pay was based on nothing more that sexism. When the males receiving more pay are quite obviously not performing more/ better work by any visible measure it creates a rather hostile work environment.
twinoaks207
Having Fun!
Larry, I think you are missing the point; monkeys are smarter than women because they don't put up with it while women do.
Just guessing, I didn't click the link
You did NOT just go there!
how much time of is a woman taking for child birth, kids being sick, other family duties not typically covered my men ..... take off a yr or 2 for child rearing - NOTHING wrong with that mind you .... but over the course of a career are both sexes putting in the same hours [I am not the 1st to mention this on this board]
sure they may do the same job description - how much less on the job
edinsomd
New Member
All your base are belong to us.
Attachments
twinoaks207
Having Fun!
Feel free to arrange for surgery so you may carry that kicking little thing internally for nine months and then squeeze it out through a 10 cm opening in your body. Feel free to arrange to breast feed it, too. Then you can take just as much time off.
My husband and I are both teachers. When the kids were sick unexpectedly, I was the one who had to call in on short notice. Yeah, he'd take the second day but those didn't happen too often. Consequently, he's got a ton of sick leave built up and I don't because most of mine has been used to care for sick kids and parents. No one really pays people to do that care-giving thing or recognizes that it is a definite need area with both parents working.
And yeah, we actually are at the same rate of pay on the pay scale. Luckily, my field is not one of those that really discriminates for pay at my level.
terbear1225
Well-Known Member
In the specific case i was referring to, the males had been in the job for less time with no significant difference in days taken off.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason; there are underlying truths. There are basic, core difference between men and women and this is not a capable v. incapable argument as much as it is a stating of the obvious.
In my world, taking the process from seed to a finished plant out the door, all my people, male and female, participate to some extent in each step. Some, the men do better. Others, the ladies are better at. Taken as a whole, it is best to have men and women but, there are times when I wish it was all women and others I wish it was all just guys.
In any event, I no more support pure equality, nor believe in it, any more that I support or believe in pure capitalism or socialism.
Balance.
