Germans Loved Obama. Now We Don’t Trust Him.

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Germans Loved Obama. Now We Don’t Trust Him.


All of this data had to be kept so that law enforcement agencies could gain access to it. That meant that the metadata of 80 million Germans was being stored, without any concrete suspicions and without cause.

This “preventive measure” was met with huge opposition in Germany. Lawyers, journalists, doctors, unions and civil liberties activists started to protest. In 2008, almost 35,000 people signed on to a constitutional challenge to the law. In Berlin, tens of thousands of people took to the streets to protest data retention. In the end, the Constitutional Court ruled that the implementation of the European Union directive was, in fact, unconstitutional.

In Germany, whenever the government begins to infringe on individual freedom, society stands up. Given our history, we Germans are not willing to trade in our liberty for potentially better security. Germans have experienced firsthand what happens when the government knows too much about someone. In the past 80 years, Germans have felt the betrayal of neighbors who informed for the Gestapo and the fear that best friends might be potential informants for the Stasi. Homes were tapped. Millions were monitored.
 
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czygvtwkr

Guest

What does it matter what the German people think of our president? It never mattered that they thought he was great and it equally doesn't matter that now they don't.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
What does it matter what the German people think of our president? It never mattered that they thought he was great and it equally doesn't matter that now they don't.

I disagree. I think the left went for him in even bigger numbers in 2008 when throngs came to see him at the Brandenburg Gate. Unlike Bush whom the left hated, here was a man the Europeans seemed to love. Finally they fielded a candidate that Europe was going to like.

Of all the differences between the left and the right, one common one is, the left loves all things European, and the right - not so much. It's too often I hear a liberal tell me that they do this in Europe, as though what they do is the gold standard.
 
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czygvtwkr

Guest
I disagree. I think the left went for him in even bigger numbers in 2008 when throngs came to see him at the Brandenburg Gate. Unlike Bush whom the left hated, here was a man the Europeans seemed to love. Finally they fielded a candidate that Europe was going to like.

Of all the differences between the left and the right, one common one is, the left loves all things European, and the right - not so much. It's too often I hear a liberal tell me that they do this in Europe, as though what they do is the gold standard.

My response to them is go live there then since its such a utopia.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Europe demands answers about U.S. bugging claims


The allegations, reported Sunday by the German news magazine Der Spiegel, threaten to derail negotiations on a variety of issues with the United States, French President Francois Hollande said Monday. U.S. and EU officials are scheduled to begin talks on a proposed trans-Atlantic free trade agreement next week.

Hollande said any such surveillance must stop immediately before negotiations can go forward.

"We know that there are systems which have to control notably for the threat against terrorism, but I do not think that this is in our embassies or in the EU that this risks exist," he said.

However, some analysts said such is common, even among allies.

Michael Hayden, a former director of the NSA and CIA, told "Face the Nation" on CBS on Sunday morning that "any European who wants to go out and rend their garments with regard to international espionage should look first and find out what their governments are doing."

Der Spiegel reported the allegations Sunday, citing information from secret documents obtained by self-avowed NSA leaker Edward Snowden and "in part seen" by the news magazine.

In Brussels, Der Spiegel says, the agency targeted the Justus Lipsius Building, which houses the European Council and the EU Council of Ministers, the union's main decision-making and legislative body.



as Allies we may spy on each other ... but at least their guys know how to keep quiet about it
 

Lurk

Happy Creepy Ass Cracka
I disagree. I think the left went for him in even bigger numbers in 2008 when throngs came to see him at the Brandenburg Gate. Unlike Bush whom the left hated, here was a man the Europeans seemed to love. Finally they fielded a candidate that Europe was going to like.

Of all the differences between the left and the right, one common one is, the left loves all things European, and the right - not so much. It's too often I hear a liberal tell me that they do this in Europe, as though what they do is the gold standard.

I agree. The Kenyan had zero international experience and the German adoration prior to the election pushed him over the top. Now not so much.
 

Bavarian

New Member
I disagree. I think the left went for him in even bigger numbers in 2008 when throngs came to see him at the Brandenburg Gate. Unlike Bush whom the left hated, here was a man the Europeans seemed to love. Finally they fielded a candidate that Europe was going to like.

.

The reason there was such a crowd in 2008 at the Siegensturm was that the crowd was waiting for a Techno Concert. Obama was a pre-show.

Once I explain to my relatives over there what Obama is really like, they stop liking him. I am a Conservative who likes Europe.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Germans also loved - adored, even - Hitler. This is comparing a fascist with a fascist. At least many Germans learned to not love the big o before getting into a world war over it.

But we, and the world, are still stuck with it.
 
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