Instructor shoots student in gun-safety class

[nhboy]

Link to original article.

"LANCASTER, Ohio — A firearms instructor accidentally shot a student while teaching a gun-safety class on Saturday in Fairfield County to people seeking permits to carry concealed weapons.

Terry J. Dunlap Sr., who runs a shooting range and training center at 6995 Coonpath Rd. near Lancaster, was demonstrating a handgun when he fired a .38-caliber bullet that ricocheted off a desk and into student Michael Piemonte’s right arm.

Dunlap, 73, also is a long-time Violet Township trustee who is running for re-election in November.

Yesterday, Piemonte said he feels lucky, and it could have been worse.

He and his wife, Allison, both 26 and residents of Pataskala in Licking County, attended the daylong concealed-carry class together.

“My wife was sitting just inches away from me,” he said. “It could have easily hit her.”

Dunlap apparently didn’t know that the gun was loaded, Piemonte said — “That’s my guess.” "

 

[b23hqb]

Darn it, boy. You missed your chance to be a martyr.

 

[Dupontster]

OH f**K... Lets ban guns.

 

[ZARA]

But ..but..but...

Rule #1. Check and see if the weapon is loaded...

 

[Lurk]

But ..but..but...

Rule #1. Check and see if the weapon is loaded...

Rule #1 The weapon is loaded until you personally clear it

Rule #2 Never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy

Rule #3 Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Rule #4 Be aware of what is between you and the target and behind the target that you don't want to shoot

Rule #5 If a thug has you pinned down, is pummelling you and threatening to kill you, think about whether your life is really worth saving even if you are armed

 

[PsyOps]

And in other news, 20 more were killed in Chicago when guns were fired at another person ON PURPOSE.

 

[Larry Gude]

And in other news, 20 more were killed in Chicago when guns were fired at another person ON PURPOSE.

And then, there is that.

 

[Vince]

And in other news, 20 more were killed in Chicago when guns were fired at another person ON PURPOSE.

And then, there is that.

Yeah, but the anti-gunners don't care about that part. Only the news where they can point their fingers and say, "see, another reason we should ban all guns."

 

[Pushrod]

Yeah, but the anti-gunners don't care about that part. Only the news where they can point their fingers and say, "see, another reason we should ban all guns."

The instructor is a moron. He's a safety instructor and broke the number one rule of firearm safety? He will lose his shirt when he is sued.

The firearm classes I have taken that had classroom time, no ammo was allowed in the classroom and the demonstration firearm was either a non-firing replica or had to be verified unloaded by 3 people and then was still treated as if it was loaded.

You also have to point out that there were probably 1000's of classes being held across the country that weekend, and 10's of thousands over the year and there has only been this one negligent discharge. So it is a very low probability of getting shot in a class.

 

[desertrat]

The instructor is a moron. He's a safety instructor and broke the number one rule of firearm safety? He will lose his shirt when he is sued.

The firearm classes I have taken that had classroom time, no ammo was allowed in the classroom and the demonstration firearm was either a non-firing replica or had to be verified unloaded by 3 people and then was still treated as if it was loaded.

You also have to point out that there were probably 1000's of classes being held across the country that weekend, and 10's of thousands over the year and there has only been this one negligent discharge. So it is a very low probability of getting shot in a class.

I think the instuctor had best be taking the next class rather than teaching.

 

[Larry Gude]

The instructor is a moron. He's a safety instructor and broke the number one rule of firearm safety? He will lose his shirt when he is sued. .

That is way unfair in my view, holding gun people to the impossible standard of zero mistakes. Something well in excess of 100,000 people die, every year, due to some form of medical mistake or other including doctors screwing up in the OR and wrong prescriptions being doled out. That is life and death. Most air fatalities are human error. People make mistakes.

If the guy has a history of ND's and AD's, OK, fine. But, if this is rare or even a first time incident, it's wrong to consider him a moron. I handle firearms ALL the time. Pistols, shotguns, rifles and had one ND, with a rifle, 25 years ago, that was handed to be locked and loaded with the safety off and my finger grazed the trigger and it was probably a 3# pull or less. Fortunately, I had it pointed away from us.

I am an NRA certified beginner handgun instructor and I've taken tactical, live fire classes. I've seen people with WAY more experience than me make little boo boos, once in a great while, that COULD have been a ND that wasn't.

My point here is to push back against the absurd notion that not only does a person exercising the constitutional right have to meet extra constitutional legal requirements but, on top of that, is allowed exactly zero mistakes.

Step one is rejecting this sort of premise to begin with.

 

[nutz]

Rule #5 If a thug has you pinned down, is pummelling you and threatening to kill you, think about whether your life is really worth saving even if you are armed

And how to pay for the attorney.

 

[Pushrod]

That is way unfair in my view, holding gun people to the impossible standard of zero mistakes. Something well in excess of 100,000 people die, every year, due to some form of medical mistake or other including doctors screwing up in the OR and wrong prescriptions being doled out. That is life and death. Most air fatalities are human error. People make mistakes.

If the guy has a history of ND's and AD's, OK, fine. But, if this is rare or even a first time incident, it's wrong to consider him a moron. I handle firearms ALL the time. Pistols, shotguns, rifles and had one ND, with a rifle, 25 years ago, that was handed to be locked and loaded with the safety off and my finger grazed the trigger and it was probably a 3# pull or less. Fortunately, I had it pointed away from us.

I am an NRA certified beginner handgun instructor and I've taken tactical, live fire classes. I've seen people with WAY more experience than me make little boo boos, once in a great while, that COULD have been a ND that wasn't.

My point here is to push back against the absurd notion that not only does a person exercising the constitutional right have to meet extra constitutional legal requirements but, on top of that, is allowed exactly zero mistakes.

Step one is rejecting this sort of premise to begin with.

I have to disagree with you Larry. This man was a certified instructor in a classroom setting and of all people should have known better then to assume a firearm was unloaded, have his finger on the trigger and have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction. Yes, negligent discharges happen and shouldn't reflect badly on the general gun owner, but when you have it happen with a SAFETY INSTRUCTOR and he blurts out: "I thought is was unloaded" it is time for him to hang up his instructor certificate because the moron is strong within him.

ETA: Oh, and the only AD's I have ever heard of are dropping a firearm and having it fire (very very rare) or having a round cook off in a hot chamber (also very rare). Most are ND's.

 

[nutz]

I have to disagree with you Larry. This man was a certified instructor in a classroom setting and of all people should have known better then to assume a firearm was unloaded, have his finger on the trigger and have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction. Yes, negligent discharges happen and shouldn't reflect badly on the general gun owner, but when you have it happen with a SAFETY INSTRUCTOR and he blurts out: "I thought is was unloaded" it is time for him to hang up his instructor certificate because the moron is strong within him.

ETA: Oh, and the only AD's I have ever heard of are dropping a firearm and having it fire (very very rare) or having a round cook off in a hot chamber (also very rare). Most are ND's.

Wow, you are throwing alot of assumptions into the mix. What article did you read? See a classroom video maybe?

 

[Larry Gude]

I have to disagree with you Larry. This man was a certified instructor in a classroom setting and of all people should have known better then to assume a firearm was unloaded, have his finger on the trigger and have the muzzle pointed in an unsafe direction. Yes, negligent discharges happen and shouldn't reflect badly on the general gun owner, but when you have it happen with a SAFETY INSTRUCTOR and he blurts out: "I thought is was unloaded" it is time for him to hang up his instructor certificate because the moron is strong within him.

ETA: Oh, and the only AD's I have ever heard of are dropping a firearm and having it fire (very very rare) or having a round cook off in a hot chamber (also very rare). Most are ND's.

And you are prepared to say this is worse than a doctor or a pilot or a police officer or a mom, or the 20,000 people a year killed driving around 3,000 pound wheels of death and mayhem, for crying out loud, making a mistake?

I'm sorry but, buying into this ZERO tolerance mentality is part of the problem, part of the terror/bogey man campaign against the Second Amendment. IT HAPPENS. It is going to happen. Pretending it should NEVER happen A, does not help it happen less and B, threatens the RIGHT to keep and bare arms.

 

[Pushrod]

And you are prepared to say this is worse than a doctor or a pilot or a police officer or a mom, or the 20,000 people a year killed driving around 3,000 pound wheels of death and mayhem, for crying out loud, making a mistake?

I'm sorry but, buying into this ZERO tolerance mentality is part of the problem, part of the terror/bogey man campaign against the Second Amendment. IT HAPPENS. It is going to happen. Pretending it should NEVER happen A, does not help it happen less and B, threatens the RIGHT to keep and bare arms.

But this SHOULDN'T have happened. A loaded firearm in a classroom should be a no-no. I understand mistakes happen, but when you have the left of the nation scrutinizing firearm owners under an electron microscope like they are, all of our t's need to be crossed and i's dotted when it comes to people in a position that this gentleman was in. If it had been any other gun owner we could cut them some slack, a firearm's safety instructor in a classroom setting, not so much.

back at you.

 

[Pushrod]

Wow, you are throwing alot of assumptions into the mix. What article did you read? See a classroom video maybe?

What assumptions? For the firearm to have fired, it HAD to be loaded, someones finger HAD to be on the trigger and since someone was hit (even with a richochet) the muzzle had to be pointed in that general direction.

 

[Larry Gude]

What assumptions? For the firearm to have fired, it HAD to be loaded, someones finger HAD to be on the trigger and since someone was hit (even with a richochet) the muzzle had to be pointed in that general direction.

Yes. A human being, who handles firearms, all the time, had to have messed up.

 

[Larry Gude]

But this SHOULDN'T have happened. Agree. But it DOES and WILL A loaded firearm in a classroom should be a no-no. Agree. I understand mistakes happen, but when you have the left of the nation scrutinizing firearm owners under an electron microscope like they are, all of our t's need to be crossed and i's dotted when it comes to people in a position that this gentleman was in. If it had been any other gun owner we could cut them some slack, a firearm's safety instructor in a classroom setting, not so much.

back at you.

My argument is simple; if this guy is a moron for making one mistake then, guess what, we're all morons. Zero fail in a 'will fail' endeavor, such as human existence, is a bad place to start. It's fine as a goal but, not as a hard and fast rule. If this guy is a 'moron' and broke an unbreakable rule, then what? No more 'morons' around firearms? See my point? We set it up for failure. We hand them the stick to beat us with.

What would you see happen to him? A fine? Lose his business? If you don't come down that he should never be allowed to train again, because he is a moron, then, you CAN'T accept anything less than his disqualification from instructing and our side has one less otherwise solid, long standing productive member. One less teacher. We sacrifice one of ours for what?

Nothing.

 

[Midnightrider]

Rule #1 The weapon is loaded until you personally clear it

Rule #2 Never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy

Rule #3 Keep you finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire

Rule #4 Be aware of what is between you and the target and behind the target that you don't want to shoot

Rule #5 If a thug has you pinned down, is pummelling you and threatening to kill you, think about whether your life is really worth saving even if you are armed

rule #1 is actually "treat every firearm as if it is loaded".

this guy probably "thought" he had cleared the firearm, either then or previously.