School bus safety

[royhobie]

By now we have all seen the strobe light normally located on the top and near the rear of the school bus. This of course is supposed to increase awareness of the school bus on the road. I am not sure who will miss a great big orange school bus with reflectors all around it, but who knows? Anyhow, the other day I saw a vehicle following a school bus pretty close. The first time, I ignored it. Then I saw it again. Eventually I figured out why. It is because the strobe light distracts the driver. Some people have a medical condition that makes them more sensitive to light. This condition does NOT preclude them from maintaining their drivers license. In this and some other cases, a strobe can potentially have an effect of temporarily blinding the driver.

If the Counties and or States can demostrate that the strobe has increased safety awareness and decreased accidents, I support it 100%. However, as in many things our government does, I doubt they can show just cause of this safety enhancement. They can move the strobe more to the middle of the bus and still have an awareness effect. I have noticed a few buses, although very few at this point, have done just that.

We all support their concern about the important cargo that they carry. But, none of us want it to backfire and have a "negative" effect which would result in increasing accidents instead of decreasing accidents when and if they occur. Using their method of analogy, you could potentially argue that the strobes increase accidents. Because there is no evidence to support that strobes increase safety. It is merely an "assumption" at yet another cost to the taxpayer. Again, I have no problem with the cost, so long as they have physical evidence it has increased safety of the buses and or the children. But, I doubt it exists. In fact, I predict in time, a driver may say he was "DISTRACTED" by the strobe and thus an accident was the result. I just pray that children are not at the losing end.

 

[kom526]

A perfect example of a solution in search of a problem.

 

[afjess1989]

By now we have all seen the strobe light normally located on the top and near the rear of the school bus. This of course is supposed to increase awareness of the school bus on the road. I am not sure who will miss a great big orange school bus with reflectors all around it, but who knows? Anyhow, the other day I saw a vehicle following a school bus pretty close. The first time, I ignored it. Then I saw it again. Eventually I figured out why. It is because the strobe light distracts the driver. Some people have a medical condition that makes them more sensitive to light. This condition does NOT preclude them from maintaining their drivers license. In this and some other cases, a strobe can potentially have an effect of temporarily blinding the driver.

If the Counties and or States can demostrate that the strobe has increased safety awareness and decreased accidents, I support it 100%. However, as in many things our government does, I doubt they can show just cause of this safety enhancement. They can move the strobe more to the middle of the bus and still have an awareness effect. I have noticed a few buses, although very few at this point, have done just that.

We all support their concern about the important cargo that they carry. But, none of us want it to backfire and have a "negative" effect which would result in increasing accidents instead of decreasing accidents when and if they occur. Using their method of analogy, you could potentially argue that the strobes increase accidents. Because there is no evidence to support that strobes increase safety. It is merely an "assumption" at yet another cost to the taxpayer. Again, I have no problem with the cost, so long as they have physical evidence it has increased safety of the buses and or the children. But, I doubt it exists. In fact, I predict in time, a driver may say he was "DISTRACTED" by the strobe and thus an accident was the result. I just pray that children are not at the losing end.

The light is for when fog is around. For example this morning.

 

[sm8]

I believe their purpose is meant more for heavy fog or darker conditions. It is still dark out when middle and high school children are boarding the buses. I do understand your concern of the other drivers getting distracted but I would be willing to bet their distraction was more of the cell phone variety. Unless their condition is moth like and they are drawn to the light I would imagine they could just steer clear of buses all together.

 

[Rommey]

Going on a slight tangent here, but yesterday I was following a propane truck and noticed the one of the taillights on each side were flashing at a regular interval. At first I thought it was only when he was braking to alert the driver behind, but soon realized they were flashing all the time. As we were going down the road, he turned on his left turn signal and started braking...at least I finally noticed them as I almost ran into for not realizing he had turned on the signal and braked. The flashing lights had totally obscured the fact that the brake and turn signal lights had come on.

The point is that I had pretty much ignored any other lights on the truck because of the flashing lights. If the flashing lights weren't there I would have noticed immediately the other lights coming on. I realize that the school bus flashing light is white and located away from the brake/turn signal lights, but the principle could be the same in that it takes attention away from the lights that need to have attention.

 

[glhs837]

Roy, any links to back up this "moth driver" theory? Cant recall ever reading about that. I know people can get fixated on things, thats the old "you go where you are looking" thing, but thats not a medical condition, thats just poor driving.

 

[Tech]

Weren't the white lights on school buses added after a bad accident on the eastern shore where a school bus pulled in front of a truck on a foggy morning?

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the lights on trucks so they could be seen and school bus drivers would not pull out in front of them? Now the truck driver will know what pulled out in their path just prior to impact.

 

[royhobie]

I believe their purpose is meant more for heavy fog or darker conditions. It is still dark out when middle and high school children are boarding the buses. I do understand your concern of the other drivers getting distracted but I would be willing to bet their distraction was more of the cell phone variety. Unless their condition is moth like and they are drawn to the light I would imagine they could just steer clear of buses all together.

You know, that is what I thought too. I agree with the idea of fog or darkness. This would make sense and probably would be a good idea to some degree, although you should still be able to see a big orange school bus, even in the fog or darkness, unless you had your headlights off. "But, they are told to have it on during a nice sunny day". I am not sure why. Don't forget, for decades, we got along fine without it. Now drivers all of a sudden can't see? Does this mean the eye sight of our drivers has changed over the years? I will agree they are far more distracted as previous years. But, we all know the strobe light is unlikely to solve their distractions.

 

[royhobie]

A perfect example of a solution in search of a problem.

That's an excellent way of putting it. Good point!

 

[mdff21]

Maryland requires the light to be on any time the bus is running. In some states that have the strobe light it is only on when the bus is occupied. I was told the reason is that in case of an accident the responders will know if the bus is occupied or not as they approach the scene. No light no students, light on students on the bus.

 

[royhobie]

Roy, any links to back up this "moth driver" theory? Cant recall ever reading about that. I know people can get fixated on things, thats the old "you go where you are looking" thing, but thats not a medical condition, thats just poor driving.

I have seen no evidence on the Internet, or from the State in repeated requests to demostrate that his has helped OR hurt safety of both the buses and or the children. With that said, there is ample evidence of people that with a medical condition that are sensitive to light. There is a name for it, which I can't remember at the moment.

I found this from the Epilepsy Foundation on line. When you go to their web page, you can read the rest of it. Also, I noticed one other person, NOT Epilepsy releated on the Internet said he just freaks out around strobes for some reason. I am not sure if his condition is psychological, medical, or both. Notice the bold part of this below:

Photosensitivity and Seizures
Epilepsy affects more than three million Americans. For about 3 percent of them, exposure to flashing lights at certain intensities or to certain visual patterns can trigger seizures. This condition is known as photosensitive epilepsy.
Photosensitive epilepsy is more common in children and adolescents, especially those with generalized epilepsy, in particular juvenile myoclonic epilepsy. It becomes less frequent with age, with relatively few cases in the mid twenties.

Many people are unaware that they are sensitive to flickering lights or to certain kinds of patterns until they have a seizure. They may never go on to develop epilepsy, which is characterized by recurrent spontaneous seizures, though a seizure may be triggered by certain photic conditions. Many individuals who are disturbed by light exposure do not develop seizures but experience other symptoms such as headache, nausea, dizziness and more. They do not have epilepsy.

Examples of Triggers
Seizures in photosensitive people may be triggered by exposure to television screens due to the flicker or rolling images, to computer monitors, to certain video games or TV broadcasts containing rapid flashes or alternating patterns of different colors, and to intense strobe lights like visual fire alarms.

Now that I am aware of a potential problem with the strobes, I am not sure why our government would decide to have them on during the day. In fact, wtih a strobe at NIGHT in the back of the bus, I can see how this would be substantially distracting. It sounds like it would be potentially helpful only in the fog; such as we have now.

There is a Maryland Vehicle Law that prohibits the display of white light to the rear of a vehicle. Perhaps schools buses are exempt?

Also, you could have an amber safety light, Orange, amber, but not white. In fact, I think some previous tests have shown that an orange color would show up better in fog. So why not orange? Good question. But, I will assume or wonderful people in government know what they are doing.

 

[aps45819]

By now we have all seen the strobe light normally located on the top and near the rear of the school bus. This of course is supposed to increase awareness of the school bus on the road. I am not sure who will miss a great big orange school bus with reflectors all around it, but who knows? Anyhow, the other day I saw a vehicle following a school bus pretty close. The first time, I ignored it. Then I saw it again. Eventually I figured out why. It is because the strobe light distracts the driver. Some people have a medical condition that makes them more sensitive to light. This condition does NOT preclude them from maintaining their drivers license. In this and some other cases, a strobe can potentially have an effect of temporarily blinding the driver.

People closely follow the vehicle in front of them because they don't know how to drive. It's not because of strobe light, they're just stupid

 

[glhs837]

Any maker of any strobe is very aware of epileptics, Roy, and I'll bet you the incidence of bus strobe causing any epileptic reaction ranges from 0-1 in all of the history of these devices on buses.


Barring any evidence of them actually causing problems, I think you are barking up an unproductive tree here.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Why do many cars have DRLs? They bother me more than the bus strobes.

At least you guys found something different to bitch about today.

 

[Ken King]

Any maker of any strobe is very aware of epileptics, Roy, and I'll bet you the incidence of bus strobe causing any epileptic reaction ranges from 0-1 in all of the history of these devices on buses.


Barring any evidence of them actually causing problems, I think you are barking up an unproductive tree here.

How about some first hand evidence?

I know a person that suffers seizures on occassion and has had a few while riding behind a school bus with the flashing strobes. It took a while to associate the cause, but that is what their neurologist has come up with. They ended up getting some special blue tinted glasses to wear while travelling to prevent further strobe-induced seizures. Now they just get a little queezy.

If the bus needs additional lighting why not a rotating beacon versus the strobe?

 

[desertrat]

I find it distracting if only for a second.

 

[GWguy]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but when the buses first started using these lights, they all had a unique blink pattern. You could identify the bus by the blink of the strobe. Now they all appear to use the same, or similar blink.

 

[MarieB]

I have seen no evidence on the Internet, or from the State in repeated requests to demostrate that his has helped OR hurt safety of both the buses and or the children. With that said, there is ample evidence of people that with a medical condition that are sensitive to light. There is a name for it, which I can't remember at the moment.

I found this from the Epilepsy Foundation on line. When you go to their web page, you can read the rest of it. Also, I noticed one other person, NOT Epilepsy releated on the Internet said he just freaks out around strobes for some reason. I am not sure if his condition is psychological, medical, or both. Notice the bold part of this below:

Photosensitivity and Seizures
Epilepsy affects more than three million Americans. For about 3 percent of them, exposure to flashing lights at certain intensities or to certain visual patterns can trigger seizures. This condition is known as photosensitive epilepsy.
Photosensitive epilepsy is more common in children and adolescents, especially those with generalized epilepsy, in particular juvenile myoclonic epilepsy. It becomes less frequent with age, with relatively few cases in the mid twenties.

Many people are unaware that they are sensitive to flickering lights or to certain kinds of patterns until they have a seizure. They may never go on to develop epilepsy, which is characterized by recurrent spontaneous seizures, though a seizure may be triggered by certain photic conditions. Many individuals who are disturbed by light exposure do not develop seizures but experience other symptoms such as headache, nausea, dizziness and more. They do not have epilepsy.

Examples of Triggers
Seizures in photosensitive people may be triggered by exposure to television screens due to the flicker or rolling images, to computer monitors, to certain video games or TV broadcasts containing rapid flashes or alternating patterns of different colors, and to intense strobe lights like visual fire alarms.

Now that I am aware of a potential problem with the strobes, I am not sure why our government would decide to have them on during the day. In fact, wtih a strobe at NIGHT in the back of the bus, I can see how this would be substantially distracting. It sounds like it would be potentially helpful only in the fog; such as we have now.

There is a Maryland Vehicle Law that prohibits the display of white light to the rear of a vehicle. Perhaps schools buses are exempt?

Also, you could have an amber safety light, Orange, amber, but not white. In fact, I think some previous tests have shown that an orange color would show up better in fog. So why not orange? Good question. But, I will assume or wonderful people in government know what they are doing.

There was a case in TX where an epileptic had an "event" at the intersection of a red light camera at night

 

[RoseRed]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but when the buses first started using these lights, they all had a unique blink pattern. You could identify the bus by the blink of the strobe. Now they all appear to use the same, or similar blink.

Morse code?

 

[royhobie]

Going on a slight tangent here, but yesterday I was following a propane truck and noticed the one of the taillights on each side were flashing at a regular interval. At first I thought it was only when he was braking to alert the driver behind, but soon realized they were flashing all the time. As we were going down the road, he turned on his left turn signal and started braking...at least I finally noticed them as I almost ran into for not realizing he had turned on the signal and braked. The flashing lights had totally obscured the fact that the brake and turn signal lights had come on.

The point is that I had pretty much ignored any other lights on the truck because of the flashing lights. If the flashing lights weren't there I would have noticed immediately the other lights coming on. I realize that the school bus flashing light is white and located away from the brake/turn signal lights, but the principle could be the same in that it takes attention away from the lights that need to have attention.

You bring up another good point. People can become fixated to the strobe light and ignore the more important lights such as brakes or turn signals. The more I read folks posting info on this, the more I realize it could be more of a problem than I thought. You are correct about other vehicles. It started with the school buses. You know... everything for the children. Then I noticed a few STS buses have them. (I'll post a thread about STS buses later).

Since we have fog or driving lights on the front of our cars, maybe we should get strobe lights on our cars, SUV and pick up trucks. You know, like the buses, all about safety awareness. Why should buses have the exclusive right to safety devices? We carry children in our cars, SUVs and pick up trucks just like school buses!

As for the propane and perhaps in the future oil delivery trucks, why don't they have amber flashing lights to bring the attention to these vehicles? Then we are left to wonder whether or not there will be an end to this. I will say the new vehicles with the LED brake lights seem to be pretty bright. Not quite as bright as strobes. But, a close second. I'll have to hook up a line of LED strobes in the "interest of safety" on the top of my pick up. Of course it can't be blue, white or red. Amber or orange will do just fine.