Prosecutor: Minn Homeowner lay in wait

[BOP]

http://news.yahoo.com/prosecutor-minn-homeowner-lay-wait-teens-163213122.html

LITTLE FALLS, Minn. (AP) — A Minnesota man on trial for killing two teenagers after they broke into his house had been lying in wait in his basement with a book, some snacks and two guns, a prosecutor said Monday in his opening statement.

Byron Smith, 65, of Little Falls, is charged with first-degree premeditated murder in the slayings of 17-year-old Nick Brady and 18-year-old Haile Kifer on Thanksgiving Day in 2012. The killings rocked the small central Minnesota town of about 8,000 and stirred debate about how far a person can go in defending their home.

Smith has claimed self-defense, saying he feared the teens were armed and he was on edge after earlier, repeated break-ins at his home. Under Minnesota law, a person may use deadly force to prevent a felony from taking place in one's home or dwelling, but authorities have said Smith crossed a line when he continued to shoot the teens after they were no longer a threat.

 

[Gilligan]

Were they in his house? Yes? Dead meat.

 

[GW8345]

Don't want to get shot, don't break into someone's house.

Serves the right, and if they are still breathing, they're still a threat.

 

[rdytogo]

I wonder what this is costing this guy?

 

[mamatutu]

You can thank the liberal media for making this story national news. Anything for Cause Obama. Agree with all y'all. In my house unannounced, you best run out, or you are dead. Period. Carry on, America!

 

[Lurk]

Minnesota, the state that elected Al Franken United States Senator. That explains why this is even going to court in the first place Sounds like Kifer was terminally stupid by coming down the stairs after her "cousin" was shot more than once and after the homeowner had time to package the boy and move him to the workshop.

 

[officeguy]

Minnesota, the state that elected Al Franken United States Senator.

Historically, MN courts have been quite strong on the right to defend your habitation, this included the right of a Hmong homeowner to shoot a cop during a mistaken no-knock warrant (not only didn't they charge him, the city had to buy his house to the tune of 600k).

What happened in that house in Little Falls goes beyond any standard of reasonableness for self defense. It is never good if you tell the cops 'I did a good, clean finishing shot and she gave out the death twitch.' You can be frightened if you shoot someone, you can't be mad.

 

[Lurk]

Yes, the guy should have kept his mouth shut when the police questioned him. He had to come on like G. Gordon Liddy for some idiotic reason. Probably rooted in his DOS background.

 

[mamatutu]

Historically, MN courts have been quite strong on the right to defend your habitation, this included the right of a Hmong homeowner to shoot a cop during a mistaken no-knock warrant (not only didn't they charge him, the city had to buy his house to the tune of 600k).

What happened in that house in Little Falls goes beyond any standard of reasonableness for self defense. It is never good if you tell the cops 'I did a good, clean finishing shot and she gave out the death twitch.' You can be frightened if you shoot someone, you can't be mad.

Oh, yes, you can be frightened and mad. React and ask/or be asked questions later. It is a matter of life and death. I don't want my death, so I will deal with the aftermath. You are insinuating overkill. That is what I would do. I don't want them getting up and coming after me. Come in my house, and I don't know you, you are dead. Period.

We had an incident years ago about an acquaintance of my son that was kicked out of his house, so my son told the guy he could stay in our basement for one night. My son forgot to tell him which way to come into the house, and never told us about the arrangement. The boy ended up on our back deck totally confused. My hub saw the shadows, and was instantly outside in his boxers with a 12-gauge trained on the boy. Scary stuff. It is a joke now of what was scarier. The gun pointed at the boy, or my hub in his boxers, but I am sure y'all get the point. Trespassers are certainly taking a risk. If they end up dead, oh well.

 

[officeguy]

Yes, the guy should have kept his mouth shut when the police questioned him. He had to come on like G. Gordon Liddy for some idiotic reason. Probably rooted in his LEO background.

Nothing wrong with shooting the folks who broke into his home. Had he shot one or both of them, called the sheriffs office and left it at that, he would have gone home from the station after an interview. MN law explicitly requires no duty to retreat to defend oneself in ones place of abode.

It is everything he did after the first shots on either of the intruders that makes clear that he was not afraid but rather out to settle a score. He moved the girls body into his workshop, if he was truly afraid that she could 'just get up', why would he get close to her body to move her ? Changing guns to put a contact shot to the head of someone who is already on the ground to finish them off is pre-meditation either way you look at it.

I am all for stand your ground, castle doctrine and self defense. This guy makes a terrible example to support that case.

 

[GURPS]

Were they in his house? Yes? Dead meat.

this really settles it all ... if they were not in the mans house [no matter his intent] then they would not have gotten shot, it is not like he was out on the front lawn, and capped 2 teens walking past his house ...

is it cold and calculated ... sure
disturbing yep ....

 

[Vince]

Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.

 

[GURPS]

Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.

you do not have a right to enter my house .... if you do so illegally, you will suffer whatever fate befalls you

 

[PsyOps]

This is just a backdoor to gun control. You can have your guns, you just can't use them.

 

[Hijinx]

Nothing wrong with shooting the folks who broke into his home. Had he shot one or both of them, called the sheriffs office and left it at that, he would have gone home from the station after an interview. MN law explicitly requires no duty to retreat to defend oneself in ones place of abode.

It is everything he did after the first shots on either of the intruders that makes clear that he was not afraid but rather out to settle a score. He moved the girls body into his workshop, if he was truly afraid that she could 'just get up', why would he get close to her body to move her ? Changing guns to put a contact shot to the head of someone who is already on the ground to finish them off is pre-meditation either way you look at it.

I am all for stand your ground, castle doctrine and self defense. This guy makes a terrible example to support that case.

Good Post.

 

[officeguy]

Looks like a couple of people here need to read up on the laws that govern self defense and defense of ones home.

 

[PsyOps]

Looks like a couple of people here need to read up on the laws that govern self defense and defense of ones home.

You mean the law states that you can't kill an intruder, or that there is a limited number of bullets that you can use to defend your home?

 

[Lurk]

You mean the law states that you can't kill an intruder, or that there is a limited number of bullets that you can use to defend your home?

It may be that Minnesota has a daily bag limit of one.

 

[officeguy]

You mean the law states that you can't kill an intruder, or that there is a limited number of bullets that you can use to defend your home?

It is a common misunderstanding that the law gives you a 'right' to kill someone for comitting a misdemeanor like B&E or trespassing.

You can:
- use deadly force to stop someone from committing a violent felony in your home, e.g. robbery
- use deadly force if a reasonable person in your shoes would feel his life threatened by an intruders actions

There is no limit on the number of rounds you can use to stop an attacker. But after someone is down, dragging her body into a different room, then putting a gun up to her chin for a 'clean finishing shot' (in the guys own words) is murder.

 

[Monello]

I hope I'm never put into the same situation as this homeowner.

He should have said the girl was begging for me to put her out of her misery. If she was fatally shot, but still alive, then the finishing shot was actually more humane than letting her suffer her last few moments of life.