DHS raid for a Land Rover ........

[GURPS]

Knock, Knock. Who’s There? Heavily Armed Agents Here to Seize Your Car. Who Are You With? The EPA.


The Environmental Protection Agency is getting tired of the boring dregs of ‘protecting endangered darter snails’ and is finally spreading its wings.

The “new-look” EPA is complete with a heavily armed SWAT team that conducts commando-style raids on Alaskan spas and even has a DHS task force that seizes unauthorized land rovers for violating emissions standards. Umm, awesome?

The poor schlub who decided to commit an egregious crime against the eco-system may be out $65,000, but that’s a small price to pay for environmental justice.

So, it looks like the people who brought us plastic bag recycling and ethanol kickbacks are getting into the repo business. Not bad work in this down economy, if you can get it. It’s not like this “green police” is made up of machine-gun wielding left-wing extremists, right?

 

[LibertyBeacon]

Here it is again. I ranted on something similar the other day about how dumb it was for people to support anti-smoking laws on other people's private property, and the unintended consequences that go with that.

This is no different.

If you bought into the post-9/11 terrorism scare and begged for the government to protect you, then this is your fault. I hope you are happy with the results. Oh, this isn't what you were expecting when DHS was created? This isn't the bill of goods you were sold? LOL! Homeland Security has NOTHING to do with the environment. EPA doesn't really either, if I'm honest. But now you are starting to see the real reason for agencies like this. Now you are starting to understand why there were those reports about DHS buying up billions of rounds of ammo.

But alas, this is not the government's fault. Governments, by definition, have a monopoly on violence. They can make up and enforce any law they want because -- wait for it -- they have a monopoly on violence. This is all they know. This is YOUR fault, you who support the State with blind allegiance. YOU have done this to us. Some of you will watch this video and read other stories about it and be outraged and wonder how we got here. Just look in the mirror.

And you probably still don't see the direct line between perpetual war abroad and a police state at home.

"Their advice: check all VIN numbers."

Bull####. These people were robbed by strong-arm robbers. The advice should have been to leave as many of them hanging from ropes as possible.

 

[Hijinx]

Too many unanswered questions for me.

Why would anyone put $65,000 dollars into a 1985 Land Rover? Is this some sort of classic car?
Evidently the matching numbers part of the story is horse dung . How would the EPA have the opportunity to look for the matching numbers?
The story started out saying the Vin was possibly changed to make this car appear to be 25 years old so they could legally buy it in the United States.
That makes some sort of sense, but is that all EPA has to do? Look for one car that may have altered Vin numbers?

There is more to this in the background, a story we aren't hearing.

 

[BOP]

Here it is again. I ranted on something similar the other day about how dumb it was for people to support anti-smoking laws on other people's private property, and the unintended consequences that go with that.

This is no different.

If you bought into the post-9/11 terrorism scare and begged for the government to protect you, then this is your fault. I hope you are happy with the results. Oh, this isn't what you were expecting when DHS was created? This isn't the bill of goods you were sold? LOL! Homeland Security has NOTHING to do with the environment. EPA doesn't really either, if I'm honest. But now you are starting to see the real reason for agencies like this. Now you are starting to understand why there were those reports about DHS buying up billions of rounds of ammo.

But alas, this is not the government's fault. Governments, by definition, have a monopoly on violence. They can make up and enforce any law they want because -- wait for it -- they have a monopoly on violence. This is all they know. This is YOUR fault, you who support the State with blind allegiance. YOU have done this to us. Some of you will watch this video and read other stories about it and be outraged and wonder how we got here. Just look in the mirror.

And you probably still don't see the direct line between perpetual war abroad and a police state at home.

"Their advice: check all VIN numbers."

Bull####. These people were robbed by strong-arm robbers. The advice should have been to leave as many of them hanging from ropes as possible.

In general, I agree with what you say. However, you're basically blaming the victims, not only of this crime, but the American people who supported the legislation that brought us armed federal agencies at every level.

It's like joining the military, at least in the days before you could watch people go through boot camp and beyond (including specialized training): you don't really know what it's like until you put your feet on the yellow foot-prints.

Back in the days before we learned we can't trust our government to do anything except steal our money, waste it, and screw us over, we trusted that they were making the right decisions to help safeguard our country. Yes, we were too trusting, and we were lulled into a false sense of trust and security. We fell asleep at the switch and were not watching the watchers. Now, I fear, it may be too late.

 

[BOP]

Too many unanswered questions for me.

Why would anyone put $65,000 dollars into a 1985 Land Rover? Is this some sort of classic car?
Evidently the matching numbers part of the story is horse dung . How would the EPA have the opportunity to look for the matching numbers?
The story started out saying the Vin was possibly changed to make this car appear to be 25 years old so they could legally buy it in the United States.
That makes some sort of sense, but is that all EPA has to do? Look for one car that may have altered Vin numbers?

There is more to this in the background, a story we aren't hearing.

To import a car into the United States legally (so-called "gray market vehicles), there is a mountain of paperwork that's costly and time-consuming. Having done emissions inspections on such vehicles (it is legal in California, provided their equipment and tailpipe emissions comply with California standards), I can tell you that more than one customer said that it was STILL less expensive to import and bring a vehicle into compliance than to buy a similar vehicle off the showroom floor. At least it was 10 - 12 years ago.

What we're talking about is not gray market. We're talking about black market vehicles. Unless the owners were really, really stupid, which may be, the price was too good to pass up, and you know what they say about "if it sounds too good to be true...."

That doesn't justify the use of what is basically a SWAT or commando raid on the couple's home (thank god they didn't have a dog!), but I find it hard to believe that they're as pure as the driven snow when it comes to at least having a sneaking suspicion that all was not correct with their new vehicle.

http://blog.caranddriver.com/exclusive-feds-declare-war-on-black-market-land-rover-defenders/


http://www.wcscargo.com/wordpress/s...nsport/customs-seizing-range-rover-defenders/

 

[GURPS]

all by the same gov. that declined to certify Surplus HUMMV's for Civilian Highway use, even though Am General was selling the same basic model across the US

 

[GURPS]

How to Fake It

Checking the VIN, or vehicle identification number, is the first—and traditionally only—stop for verifying a vehicle’s age. In the Defender, VINs appear in two spots: There’s one on the chassis, and another VIN plate on the casing of the brake booster. In most cases, the original VINs are ground off the newer Defender and a VIN from a 25-year-old European Defender—one on the road still, or one rusting away in a field somewhere—is etched in. With NHTSA’s guidance, customs officials have caught many of these. This is a black-and-white case of breaking the rules, but there are murkier situations.

A number of British companies now retrofit new body panels, components, and interiors to old Defender frames. We spoke with one such company, which doesn’t deserve special mention here when other firms are doing the same thing, that says its practice is approved by NHTSA, and that its refurbished trucks have no trouble clearing customs. Even stranger still, the same U.K.-based seller says it will even entirely replace 25-year-old frames when they’re too rusted or damaged. It etches the old VIN into the new frame, and either carries over the VIN-bearing brake booster or puts a new brake booster in the old casing. This, too, they claim, is legit. Consider it a modern-day Ship of Theseus.


Crackdown

To our surprise, officials from NHTSA and CBP were forthcoming in discussing the techniques they’re using to catch contraband Defenders. VIN plates, for example, often look too new—and more incredibly, they’ve picked up that it’s the rivets affixing the plates that look out of date. Freshly galvanized frames can be a tell, and nuts and bolts elsewhere on vehicles, like those on the doors in the photo above, are another tip-off that at least some refurbishment took place.

CBP officers tend to take a pretty holistic view on vehicle inspection, meaning that they’re not satisfied merely by a 25-year-old VIN. If vehicle components overall look too new, they’ll reach out not only to NHTSA but even to Land Rover itself—which, officials say, has been helpful to a nearly unprecedented degree. Land Rover can, of course, date frames based on the minor details that changed from year to year.

this really warrants the attention of 3 [or more] federal agencies for a few 100 vehicles a year .....


it really boils down to, when is a used vehicle no longer used or old

... a barn Find Heml, where 95% of the car is replaced in a 100% Concurs Restoration
... where the vehicle looks better than it did the day the UAW put the car together for Chrysler put


you can build a complete CJ-5 from all new parts [minus the original motor and trans], swap over the fin from the one you pulled from a Florida Swamp ... and you are Good To Go ....

 

[jrt_ms1995]

Why would anyone put $65,000 dollars into a 1985 Land Rover?

'cause they're stupid and that's what it would take to get one of these POSs runnable, briefly.

 

[Baja28]

The advice should have been to leave as many of them hanging from ropes as possible.

You make me squint too. Why don't you try that and let us know how it works out for ya?

 

[LibertyBeacon]

There is more to this in the background, a story we aren't hearing.

There is no story you aren't hearing. There is a story you aren't understanding. We have been asleep at the wheel, and now we have a government that can "file suit" against inanimate objects (other people's property) and abscond with them at will.

It doesn't matter "why" anyone would want to spend that kind of money on a 1985 Land Rover. The reasons the couple did that is theirs and theirs alone. It is none of yours or my business. In fact the only question you need to ask is: was the transaction voluntary? In a voluntary transaction, by definition, both parties benefit. If it turns out he was defrauded by the seller, that is a valid role for government intervention, but the role is not to steal from the apparent victims. The role is to provide for legal remedy.

Here is a link I found that gets you a PDF of the law suit which was filed against these vehicles:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...l_6XyemjcdOdCB0UCyQXvAQ&bvm=bv.72185853,d.cWc

You could probably back out the link obfuscation/redirection and figure out how to get the attachment from defendersource.com which I gather is a hobbyist website for aficionados of this vehicle.

Here's a snippet of the complaint:

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
Plaintiff,
LAND ROVER VEHICLES,
SPECIFICALLY DESCRIBED AS:
A 1988 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAB7BA324873; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAB7AA291556; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAB7AA275624; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAD7AA281708; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7EA324692; A 1983 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAG7AA193948; A 1986 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAD7BA260816; A 2000 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAG7AA193941; A 1986 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHHB7BA285727; A 1986 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAV7AA295261; A 1986 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAB7AA310895; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7BA300302; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMV7EA336425; A 2000 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAG7AA189401; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7EA322818; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7EA327618; A 2000 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMH7AA184735; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMC7BA258911; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7BA275080; A 2000 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHHV1AA199927; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAV7BA246833; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAC8AA264271; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAD7AA253941; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAC7AA229260; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAC7AA247548; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAD7BA248040; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAH7AA235483; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHHV7BA241033; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMVBA236398; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAB7AA275628; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMV7BA301364; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMV7EA323114; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMV7BA313116; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7EA318298; A 1987 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7EA317320; A 1985 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMV7BA308663; A 1986 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHMB7BA283341; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAB7AA293453; A 1984 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDVAC7AA244441; A 2000 LAND ROVER VIN: SALLDHAG777197707,
AND ANY AND ALL ATTACHMENTS THEREON; AND ANY AND ALL PROCEEDS FROM THE SALE OF SAID PROPERTY,
Defendants

Finally, here is the authority granted to DHS to run an asset forfeiture operation:

http://www.ice.gov/asset-forfeiture/

Thank you George Bush and Dick Cheney!

 

[LibertyBeacon]

In general, I agree with what you say. However, you're basically blaming the victims, not only of this crime, but the American people who supported the legislation that brought us armed federal agencies at every level.

You are right. We are the victims. Perhaps I got a bit carried away with my rant. It's been known to happen. There used to be a time when government was supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. I think that sham is done. We are not government. If we were, then by definition that would mean the government could never be tyrannical -- why would we ever be tyrannical towards ourselves? It would mean the government can never be unjust -- why would we ever be unjust towards ourselves? It would mean every transaction between government and the people would be voluntary -- why would we ever act against our own best interests?

You sound like you're making a pretty good argument against a State :yippie:

 

[LibertyBeacon]

You make me squint too. Why don't you try that and let us know how it works out for ya?

Go choke on a trash bag full of c0cks.

 

[Gilligan]

Go choke on a trash bag full of c0cks.

Gee. That wasn't very nice.

 

[stgislander]

Why is DHS running an asset forfeiture operation? Wouldn't that be more the purview of the FBI?

 

[GURPS]

Why is DHS running an asset forfeiture operation? Wouldn't that be more the purview of the FBI?

because CUSTOMS is part of ICE ... Illegally Imported Assets get seized .... ICE does the seizing ..... just like fake Coach handbags from china

 

[stgislander]

because CUSTOMS is part of ICE ... Illegally Imported Assets get seized .... ICE does the seizing ..... just like fake Coach handbags from china

Thanks. When LB was talking about DHS agents, I was envisioning the DHS Special Agents that run around chasing terrorists. He could have as easily said Customs Agents.

 

[GURPS]

Thanks. When LB was talking about DHS agents, I was envisioning the DHS Special Agents that run around chasing terrorists. He could have as easily said Customs Agents.

well the article did say DHS Agents took part in the RAID .... as did the EPA

 

[GURPS]

 

[mamatutu]

I don't get it. We bought a 1985 LR Discovery back in 2000, used for 12,000. I believe 1985 was the first year it was imported. We just gave it to Purple Heart last year. That car never gave us a day of trouble, except for a gas tank recall that was fixed for free. It always passed emissions. I loved that car. It was bright red. I felt very safe in it with the double steel body. I miss my big red box. He was a trooper.