Letter: Who's Hurting The Students

Editor

somd.com Editor
Staff member
PREMO Member
Patron
Posting the following letter as a courtesy to the undersigned:

Public School Union Officials are saying that "teachers are going back to basics because they are not getting step increases in pay". Union Officials were quoted in local papers as saying "teachers with the St. Mary's County School System will only do what is required of them this school year and nothing more, and that includes not assigning homework to students because it would increase the amount of free time that teachers would have to use to grade assignments". The Union Officials go on to say " we have no intention of hurting the students or diminishing the quality and instruction we provide". This is a contradiction !

I contend that not assigning homework does hurt the students and the quality of education. Do all teachers feel this way about assigning homework, or is this the Unions talking? Either way, it sounds petty. One teacher speaking to a local paper on condition of anonymity put the onus on the Unions and the School Board for not doing an adequate job, and said that teachers did get step a increase but were short changed just a few dollars per pay check due to a change in the payment formula. That is not the County Commissioners fault!

Everyone should stop pointing fingers at the County Commissioners who have continued to adequately fund the School System with annual increases in funding. They should instead turn their ire toward the Unions, and also toward the School Board for mismanagement resulting in a $6.5 million cost overrun. Without this mismanagement, teachers could have a bigger pay check. And the question remains, are Unions a help or hindrance to Public Education?

Joe Wible Sr.
Leonardtown
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
I would say the same thing to the teachers as has been said to some of the contractors working for NAVAIR, if you don't like the pay, go else where.
People are being called in and told they can either accept 20 to 30 percent cut in pay, and loss of benefits as the new company takes over the contract.
If they don't like it, they are free to seek other employment
Refusing to do work that is considered reasonable and ordinary would most likely result in termination - unless they had the protection of a union.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Posting the following letter as a courtesy to the undersigned:

Public School Union Officials are saying that "teachers are going back to basics because they are not getting step increases in pay". Union Officials were quoted in local papers as saying "teachers with the St. Mary's County School System will only do what is required of them this school year and nothing more, and that includes not assigning homework to students because it would increase the amount of free time that teachers would have to use to grade assignments". The Union Officials go on to say " we have no intention of hurting the students or diminishing the quality and instruction we provide". This is a contradiction !

I contend that not assigning homework does hurt the students and the quality of education. Do all teachers feel this way about assigning homework, or is this the Unions talking? Either way, it sounds petty. One teacher speaking to a local paper on condition of anonymity put the onus on the Unions and the School Board for not doing an adequate job, and said that teachers did get step a increase but were short changed just a few dollars per pay check due to a change in the payment formula. That is not the County Commissioners fault!

Everyone should stop pointing fingers at the County Commissioners who have continued to adequately fund the School System with annual increases in funding. They should instead turn their ire toward the Unions, and also toward the School Board for mismanagement resulting in a $6.5 million cost overrun. Without this mismanagement, teachers could have a bigger pay check. And the question remains, are Unions a help or hindrance to Public Education?

Joe Wible Sr.
Leonardtown

If the bolded were true (I say it isn't) can the author explain why the commissioners didn't approve the amount requested for instructional salaries? Requested for 2015 was $73,667,094; Approved was $68,614,368; furthermore that is less than what was Approved in 2014 which was $70,970,969. (see page 92 of the 2015 Budget Book - http://www.stmarysmd.com/docs/FY15ApprovedBudgetBook.pdf )
 

Blister

Active Member
I would say the same thing to the teachers as has been said to some of the contractors working for NAVAIR, if you don't like the pay, go else where.
People are being called in and told they can either accept 20 to 30 percent cut in pay, and loss of benefits as the new company takes over the contract.
If they don't like it, they are free to seek other employment
Refusing to do work that is considered reasonable and ordinary would most likely result in termination - unless they had the protection of a union.

Maybe the contractors should unionize?
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
Everyone should stop pointing fingers at the County Commissioners who have continued to adequately fund the School System with annual increases in funding. They should instead turn their ire toward the Unions, and also toward the School Board for mismanagement resulting in a $6.5 million cost overrun.

I'm not sure I understand how the union mismanaged the money. The school board, yes; the union, no. Maybe someone can enlighten me. :confused:

I would say the same thing to the teachers as has been said to some of the contractors working for NAVAIR, if you don't like the pay, go else where.
People are being called in and told they can either accept 20 to 30 percent cut in pay, and loss of benefits as the new company takes over the contract.
If they don't like it, they are free to seek other employment
Refusing to do work that is considered reasonable and ordinary would most likely result in termination - unless they had the protection of a union.

Just because NAVAIR contractors are suffering cut backs does that mean everyone has to, especially if it was promised in what, more or less, amounts to a legally-binding contract? This isn't a case of a contract that had contingencies written in to begin with being taken over by another company such as what happens at NAVAIR. Your way of thinking renders all contracts meaningless.

I'm pretty sure grading homework after school hours and after-school activities are considered extraordinary.
 

TerriT

New Member
Doesn't a new SMCPS teacher make over $35 an hour for the time they are actually working. Not bad for starting off if you ask me.
 

glitch

Devil's Advocate
Doesn't a new SMCPS teacher make over $35 an hour for the time they are actually working. Not bad for starting off if you ask me.

A starting teacher works (contractually) 190 days a year for 7.5 hours a day for $44,678. That works out to roughly $31.35 per hour. This requires a bachelors degree and a SPC (Standard Professional Certificate). With a masters degree, a teacher will only make $47,149 a year for the same hours. Here's the real shocker, with a doctorate that salary would only increase $2,500 a year. So a first year teacher, with a doctorate, would be making a whopping $49,649.

For comparison, an RN (which can require as little as an associates or as much as a bachelors) averages $76,330 a year. A nurse with a masters degree averages from $62,249 to $90,000.

Compared to equally educated peers in other fields, teachers aren't doing quite as well as it may seem. Add on the fact that the state takes an obligatory 7% off the top for a pension, whether you want to pay in or not.
 

CRHS89

Well-Known Member
While I do believe there will be an impact of students, how can we fault someone for doing what is in their contract but no more? I seriously doubt everyone who is complaining about teachers goes above and beyond at their jobs. Some yes, but many no.
 

sm8

Active Member
Not many teachers at our Middle School are participating. At open house the teachers had big signs stating that they would not be participating with "Back to Basics". Our elementary school seems to be hit or miss, the teachers that give off the impression they really do not want to be there ARE participating. All of the teachers I am friends with at our elementary school have not came out and said whether or not they are participating but they give homework and I see them working after school hours.
 

MarieB

New Member
Here is my question

If not assigning that extra homework is not a detriment to the kids' educations, then why assign it in the first place? You can't have it both ways
 

MarieB

New Member
A starting teacher works (contractually) 190 days a year for 7.5 hours a day for $44,678. That works out to roughly $31.35 per hour. This requires a bachelors degree and a SPC (Standard Professional Certificate). With a masters degree, a teacher will only make $47,149 a year for the same hours. Here's the real shocker, with a doctorate that salary would only increase $2,500 a year. So a first year teacher, with a doctorate, would be making a whopping $49,649.

For comparison, an RN (which can require as little as an associates or as much as a bachelors) averages $76,330 a year. A nurse with a masters degree averages from $62,249 to $90,000.

Compared to equally educated peers in other fields, teachers aren't doing quite as well as it may seem. Add on the fact that the state takes an obligatory 7% off the top for a pension, whether you want to pay in or not.


Plenty of professionals with a bachelor's degree are paid less than teachers. My sister and mom are/were both nurses. They don't have bachelor's degrees, but their education cost the same and they were on a very rigorous school schedule. You also don't get the same benefits as a nurse.

I'm not saying whether I think teachers should make more or not, but I question the motivation of comparing it to nursing. At least compare the entire package
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
A starting teacher works (contractually) 190 days a year for 7.5 hours a day for $44,678. That works out to roughly $31.35 per hour. This requires a bachelors degree and a SPC (Standard Professional Certificate). With a masters degree, a teacher will only make $47,149 a year for the same hours. Here's the real shocker, with a doctorate that salary would only increase $2,500 a year. So a first year teacher, with a doctorate, would be making a whopping $49,649.

For comparison, an RN (which can require as little as an associates or as much as a bachelors) averages $76,330 a year. A nurse with a masters degree averages from $62,249 to $90,000.

Compared to equally educated peers in other fields, teachers aren't doing quite as well as it may seem. Add on the fact that the state takes an obligatory 7% off the top for a pension, whether you want to pay in or not.

Don't want to start a fight here because my favorite high school teacher was a PhD and former college professor but for the most part a MS or a PhD make no difference in the end product from the teacher.

And have you seen the kinds of hours nurses work?
 

acommondisaster

Active Member
Plenty of professionals with a bachelor's degree are paid less than teachers. My sister and mom are/were both nurses. They don't have bachelor's degrees, but their education cost the same and they were on a very rigorous school schedule. You also don't get the same benefits as a nurse.

I'm not saying whether I think teachers should make more or not, but I question the motivation of comparing it to nursing. At least compare the entire package

I agree. I don't understand trying to compare one profession/degree to another in terms of pay. No one ever becomes a teacher to get rich. I don't mean to bash teachers, because I certainly couldn't do what they do, but I don't get why they think they're special. If I don't like the pay or benefits at my company, I go get another job - can't teachers do the same thing?
 

acommondisaster

Active Member
Oh...and on the subject of homework..not assigning homework a big deal?..my youngest son got A's on all of his classroom work and tests. He had good class participation. But when I was TDY (which was once or so a month, and for a week at a time), he never turned in homework. I talked with the teacher and could track every time I was out of town by whether he turned in homework or not. The teacher would not budge and failed him. So I spent the summer working my nightshift, coming home, staying up to drop him off at a school across town for summer school, sleeping for 3 hours then waking up to go pick him up - and I think I had to pay for him to go to summer school - to find out the only thing they were doing in the class were first grade worksheets - 1+2=, 2+2= type stuff. My son was in high school.

Based on that experience, I don't set a whole lot of store by homework.
 

GW8345

Not White House Approved
Posting the following letter as a courtesy to the undersigned:

Public School Union Officials are saying that "teachers are going back to basics because they are not getting step increases in pay". Union Officials were quoted in local papers as saying "teachers with the St. Mary's County School System will only do what is required of them this school year and nothing more, and that includes not assigning homework to students because it would increase the amount of free time that teachers would have to use to grade assignments". The Union Officials go on to say " we have no intention of hurting the students or diminishing the quality and instruction we provide". This is a contradiction !

I contend that not assigning homework does hurt the students and the quality of education. Do all teachers feel this way about assigning homework, or is this the Unions talking? Either way, it sounds petty. One teacher speaking to a local paper on condition of anonymity put the onus on the Unions and the School Board for not doing an adequate job, and said that teachers did get step a increase but were short changed just a few dollars per pay check due to a change in the payment formula. That is not the County Commissioners fault!

Everyone should stop pointing fingers at the County Commissioners who have continued to adequately fund the School System with annual increases in funding. They should instead turn their ire toward the Unions, and also toward the School Board for mismanagement resulting in a $6.5 million cost overrun. Without this mismanagement, teachers could have a bigger pay check. And the question remains, are Unions a help or hindrance to Public Education?

Joe Wible Sr.
Leonardtown

In a previous thread on this same subject, all the people who supported the teachers going "back to basic" stated that they did not receive their step increase, but according to the above they did receive it but just not as much as they wanted.

If the problem is between the union and the school board then let me ask, who elected the union to represent them? Think they might want to re-examine who they elected to their union.
 

BernieP

Resident PIA
I'm not sure I understand how the union mismanaged the money. The school board, yes; the union, no. Maybe someone can enlighten me. :confused:



Just because NAVAIR contractors are suffering cut backs does that mean everyone has to, especially if it was promised in what, more or less, amounts to a legally-binding contract? This isn't a case of a contract that had contingencies written in to begin with being taken over by another company such as what happens at NAVAIR. Your way of thinking renders all contracts meaningless.

I'm pretty sure grading homework after school hours and after-school activities are considered extraordinary.

you bet your bippy. They are also taxpayers, if taxpayers get cuts, they can't afford to pay higher tax rates. To generate more revenue from the income tax, the state would have to allow the county to increase the rate. Increasing the real estate tax puts a direct burden on the same taxpayers that have taken cuts.

Sorry, but both federal workers and support contractors have seen wage freezes and cuts over the last 5 years. People taking cuts are not to sympathetic to those who are simply not getting a raise.
 

Radiant1

Soul Probe
but according to the above they did receive it but just not as much as they wanted.

Wanted or were supposed to get via the contract?

you bet your bippy. They are also taxpayers, if taxpayers get cuts, they can't afford to pay higher tax rates. To generate more revenue from the income tax, the state would have to allow the county to increase the rate. Increasing the real estate tax puts a direct burden on the same taxpayers that have taken cuts.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure how that answers my question. Are you saying that the teachers should take a pay cut too so they won't have to pay higher taxes??

Sorry, but both federal workers and support contractors have seen wage freezes and cuts over the last 5 years. People taking cuts are not to sympathetic to those who are simply not getting a raise.

Fair enough, but that's your problem not the teachers. Btw, I work for a NAVAIR contractor.
 
Last edited:

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
[I


I'm sorry but I'm not sure how that answers my question. Are you saying that the teachers should take a pay cut too so they won't have to pay higher taxes??



Fair enough, but that's your problem not the teachers. .

You completely missed the point Bernie was making. It is NOT just "his problem". If the taxpayers overall (the source of 100% of the funds that pay teachers) are making less money, tax revenues are lower and there is a deficit. Or..similarly, if the taxpayers are making the same but the school system needs more and more money...there is a deficit.
 
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