Rock is dead
- Thread starter Monello
- Start date
mamatutu
mama to two
Rock is not dead. That era will live forever. Times change. It is time for Simmons to retire, and not gripe. He made a brazillion dollars (BG's word). I don't understand why the privileged bitch.
I do have a question. I have seen Lurk do it, and now you. How do you make your own title in blue that is linked to the article? I have never figured out that function.
I do have a question. I have seen Lurk do it, and now you. How do you make your own title in blue that is linked to the article? I have never figured out that function.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
There is so much sickening about this article I don't know where to begin so, that quote will have to do.
First off, if anyone attempted to murder rock it was Gene Simmons. Rock was is and always will be...the music. Had Gene simply been honest and said "My industry (the rock BUSINESS) has matured and now all the profit opportunities have been capitalized on...' that's one thing. It is QUITE another to say "Oh, gee, a kid is better off NEVER picking up a guitar in the first place because he is destined to FAIL miserably...'. All he is saying is "Best to not try and open your own gas station/fast food stand/toilet paper start up because you'll most likely fail..."
The MOMENT a kid puts together "Smoke on the water" or "You really got me" or, yes, "Rock and Roll all night" and recognizes it as such, he or she has succeeded. The moment they then move on to write their own song that THEY like and THEY enjoy playing, that is something beyond 'success'. That is magic.
If anything, rock once again has new life if people who only look at it as a carcass to be consumed for personal gain, exploited, are going off and developing some other ware to sell and promote. If not for merchants like Simmons, we might have been spared disco and hair metal so, this is a good thing. You can go see some kid, most nights of the week, playing their hearts out and the only thing missing will be a bunch of makeup, some smoke bombs, fake blood, New Coke Lite Beer Zima inspired 'music' and some old coot checking his net worth between songs.
Gene's business model(s) may be gone and that, folks, is a good thing. He can totter off and sell KISS Depends.
Rock is the MUSIC.
Gene Simmons gets it. He understands that the music industry is...well...an industry. As in it's all about the benjamins. No kid gets a garage band together with the hope that some day, if they work hard and practice, they'll still be sitting in the garage. And that is what the music machine is pretty much ensuring - that no unauthorized bands or performers will ever make a dime. Some guy could be a freaking genius but without hard core promotion you will never know he exists.
THAT is what Gene is railing against - the pop machine and the way the industry controls what we hear and who becomes a star. Which is somewhat amusing, considering he himself is a businessman first and a musician somewhere farther down the list. Nevertheless, I agree with him. It is certainly more difficult today for young artists to get a break. Manufactured boy bands and skeezy naked girls with computer enhanced voices, shouldn't be long before they do away with the humans altogether and just put together CG bands.
If you don't think the music industry is all about money then you are too naive to be on the internet.
THAT is what Gene is railing against - the pop machine and the way the industry controls what we hear and who becomes a star. Which is somewhat amusing, considering he himself is a businessman first and a musician somewhere farther down the list. Nevertheless, I agree with him. It is certainly more difficult today for young artists to get a break. Manufactured boy bands and skeezy naked girls with computer enhanced voices, shouldn't be long before they do away with the humans altogether and just put together CG bands.
If you don't think the music industry is all about money then you are too naive to be on the internet.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
It's not the money. It is the model. Dave Mathews and a bunch of other bands make fine livings outside Gene and the Corporate model. Dave Mathews took off and got rich GIVING away his music.
Gene Simmons is Evil Incarnate.
Further, there are all sorts of bands following the Dick Dale Method of self promotion who make a solid living doing what they LOVE. You may never hear of them or see them but, that is not their goal.
Gene is talking about being Gene; rock god. Lunch box salesman. Phantom of the Opera Buffoon. Gene's view of rock is the exact same view Nike has of tennis shoes.
Rock MUSIC is just fine without that Industrialist Rent Seeker.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That is Gene Think. I am making this perfectly clear; ROCK, the music, is fine. Better than ever BECAUSE of the freedom from control by the industry.
There's nothing wrong with looking at music as a salable product. Kids who want to poke around in their basement, guys like you who want to blast out the walls of the barn - that's fine. Gene is talking about rock as a commodity, not something people like you do for fun. He's talking about that kid with a Marshall who wants to be the next Guns 'N Roses or Kurt Cobain - get him some bling, drugs, and groupies - not the kid who wants to be the coolest dad at the PTA talent shows.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I am not saying there is anything wrong with looking at music as a stable product. There isn't anything wrong with looking at music solely as a product. Gene is saying there is something wrong with looking at music as...just music. Dave Mathews is simply the best but, by no means only, example of why Gene is wrong to say 'rock is dead'. There are and there will be people making livings at playing rock; success. The music will need to be pretty good.
There may be no more who make a living at playing crap music and using it as a channel to sell lunch boxes, dolls and condoms.
I hate this argument with you because there may well not be a bigger music fan in the world than you and you are taking the side of one of the forces of darkness that stand against music as art. You, I think, I know, would much rather have 50 or a 100 one hit wonders that come and go than to have album after album of this dreck because it 'sells' to a bunch of people whose grandmother bought it because they thought Jr. would like what was 'big' according to Readers Digest;
...simply because they are THE hot commodity whereby a BUNCH of people re solely trying to make money off of it like it is a freaking soybean.
I'm not romantic or sentimental about music. I don't have to like R-O-C-K In The USA in order to understand it. It appeals to my practical nature.
If I had any musical talent, coupled with commercial potential, I'd use it to make as much money as I could during my shelf life - then I'd get the hell out of the music business. Gene is still out there performing, and good for him (that concert was EXCELLENT!!!) - he has an ego that I don't have and a need to be on the stage. I'd be totally okay with take the money and run and you better believe I wouldn't snort one single penny of it up my nose or inject it into my veins.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Well, for one, New Daddy said Dead Leopards were a lot better and that is one of the more terrifying concepts I've had to confront in some time.
For two, you bring up an excellent point; why is the cess Gene sells OK and the cess JCM pushes not OK? And you have every bit as much musical talent as Gene Simmons. Maybe more and certainly a hell of a lot better taste. You say Mellencamp took the position "Gee. I wonder just how awful a song we can make before people cry uncle?" and revile him for it but not Simmons? Gene went from "Gosh, I hope they like OUR music" 40 years ago to "I wonder what they'll shell out for this year? Let's find out!"
And that is the thing. I love anyone's music because it is THEIR music. Their inspiration. Gene used to do that. Now, he takes the wheel he invented and says "You know, if we make the boobs bigger on this and some brighter red lipstick and a little higher on the heels, someone just may still buy this...then, we can do cell phone covers, KISS toothpaste dispensers, KISS Pet Rocks, KISS laundry detergent..."
He says that because he's a Def Leppard fan and not a KISS fan - KISS is part of my and your misspent youth, not his, and he doesn't get it.
But that brings my point home:
YOU do not like the Def ones. YOU do not necessarily care for KISS. Yet they sold out arenas all across America this summer - 40-some odd dates. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean nobody does. They are no more of a sell out than anyone who uses their talent to make money. That's what business people *do* - from Steve Jobs to Gene Simmons.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
No. I LOVED Def Leppard, the first album. It was a ROCK album. From there on, they went the Gene Simmons, lets focus on the commercial aspects, what products do people want to buy' model as opposed to the 'hey, this is what we do, hope people like it' model. I was a HUGE KISS fan up to Destroyer. They were selling just fine. They went from Detroit Rock City to Christine Sixteen. For NO reason.
And don't compare Jobs to Simmons. Steve was fiercly loyal to HIS brand, what HE did and he told people to #### off if they don't like it. If it was up to Gene Simmons, Apply would have started using Windows 3.1. If it was up to Gene Simmons, you could get a Big Mac at Burger King. Along with a condom, a lunchbox, a coffin and an autographed copy of Gene's autobiography; "How to suck and make even more money."
As for 'selling out' again, that's not the issue. Lotta people use toilet paper. The issue is whether or not 'rock is dead' because the commercial model Gene so loved whereby poor music didn't matter as long as the trinkets and concert tickets sold or whether he is wrong, dead wrong, and rock, the music, in fact, is better than ever because troglodytes like him no longer have the control they once did.
MY Def Leppard;
Again, them sucking is *your* opinion. Clearly a multitude of others didn't think so - for every you, there are millions of not-yous. Gene Simmons doesn't care what you think of his music or business model; there are millions of not-yous who are big fans. *They* are who he cares about.
Like when we get bitchers on here who go, "Ugh, I don't know how anyone stands this forum! Ack! I hate it here so much!" Well, rock on with your bad self then and don't let the door hit ya. There are a satisfying number of not-thems that like it here just fine and *they* are who I care about.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Again, that is NOT the point Gene raised. He says rock is dead. It's not. His business model, ideal vision of rock as commodity is dead. I didn't raise the point; he did.
And I am not saying "ack, I don't know why anyone stands this forum!" so, free associating isn't going to help your very weak hand. Ha. Gene is the guy who comes on and say "Who wants to talk about drunken titties at the tiki bar!?" and then out draws my thoughtful discussion of why quantitative easing is a worse cure than the disease. Well, goody. He drew more flies. #### will do that.
So, HIS opinion of what rock is, a vehicle for making money, is HIS opinion and I think it is way wrong. Rock is better off, the music, without people who suck so hard they can suck grandmothers out of their rockers in Maryland all the way down to Texas to sit in the July swamp heat of Austin, surround by people who smell like patchouli and listen to them suck.
mitzi
Well-Known Member
Larry Gude
Strung Out
KISS becomes a Vegas lounge act. Perfect.
