The "keys" to the disaster at Sandy Hook.

[Lurk]

It turns out the city fathers of Sandy Hook, CT went 'cheap' when they built the Sandy Hook Elementary School.

They also learned one of the mistakes at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., where 20-year-old Adam Lanza fatally shot 20 children and six adults during a rampage on Dec. 14, 2012.

Foley said in that incident, the school was not equipped with locks on the inside of classroom doors. The protocol was that the janitor would go around and lock the doors from the outside during a lockdown situation.

With observations that

"In an event that lasts two minutes, you don't have time to have somebody else going through the halls (locking doors)," said Foley. "What happens when that person gets shot?"

Read the Sandy Hook Final Report if you dare.

 

[frogman123]

Let's be real here. Hindsight is 20:20, but in reality who would have EVER thought something like that could ever happen? NO ONE is to blame for what happened at that school except Adam Lanza. Period.

 

[Larry Gude]

Let's be real here. Hindsight is 20:20, but in reality who would have EVER thought something like that could ever happen? NO ONE is to blame for what happened at that school except Adam Lanza. Period.

How about anyone with a remote background in history books or this new internets thingy?

Mass murder, from Whitman to Lanza to our first school massacre in 1764 and four men entered a school in Greencastle, PA and killed the teacher and 10 kids to the guy in 1927 who killed 38 elementary aged kids and injured 58 more with bombs.

 

[tommyjo]

It turns out the city fathers of Sandy Hook, CT went 'cheap' when they built the Sandy Hook Elementary School.



With observations that

Read the Sandy Hook Final Report if you dare.

So its your assertion that the school system is responsible for Lanz, an

individual with significant mental health issues

, having access to the weapons? Maybe YOU should have read the report...

Did you miss this?

The doors to the school were locked, as they customarily were at this time, the school day having already begun. The shooter proceeded to shoot his way into the school building through the plate glass window to the right of the front lobby doors.

(2nd paragraph page 9)

If the shooter, shot his way thru the locked main entrance doors (which would have more sturdy security than an interior door), why would you think a locked interior door would stop him? So let's answer that:

The doors in the hallway all locked from the outside with a key. The interior door handles had no locking mechanism. All of the doors opened outwardly toward the hallway. All doors were solid wood with a circular window in the upper half of the door.

So it is your assertion that the shooter could shoot thru the glass of locked exterior doors, but not shoot thru the glass of interior doors had they been locked???

You also missed this:

The two classrooms on either side of 8 and 10 were numbered 6 and 12. Classroom 6 was on the eastern side of classroom 8 and classroom 12 was on the western side of classroom 10. Staff and students hid in the class restrooms, locking the restroom doors from the inside.

You are obviously not interested in trying to prevent something like this from happening again, you just want to make sure your gun nutter position is confirmed, correct?

In all, eighteen children and six adult school staff members were found deceased within the school. Two more children were pronounced dead at Danbury Hospital. Two other adult school staff members were injured and were treated at nearby hospitals and survived.

That result is just the "price" of your second amendment rights, correct? Who cares if a bunch of people get slaughtered at work or in an elementary school as long as YOU have the right to shoot a gallon jug of water with a 50 cal truck mounted machine gun, correct?

 

[direxpgw]

sandy hook

So its your assertion that the school system is responsible for Lanz, an , having access to the weapons? Maybe YOU should have read the report...

Did you miss this?

(2nd paragraph page 9)

If the shooter, shot his way thru the locked main entrance doors (which would have more sturdy security than an interior door), why would you think a locked interior door would stop him? So let's answer that:

So it is your assertion that the shooter could shoot thru the glass of locked exterior doors, but not shoot thru the glass of interior doors had they been locked???

You also missed this:



You are obviously not interested in trying to prevent something like this from happening again, you just want to make sure your gun nutter position is confirmed, correct?


I think what he is saying, stop me if im wrong, is that a simple locking mechanism on the inside of the door, which is really no more expensive than an outwardly locking set, would have at least slowed Lanza down a bit. Of course, if he can shoot his way in the front door he would probably be able to shoot his way in an interior classroom door. But youd probably be surprised at how some very simple and cost effective security can at minimum hold someone up. With all the other retarded things the school systems spend money on, how about some heavy duty steel interior doors with hand locks on inside of doors and matching key locks on outside. Could you shoot your way in? Perhaps. Or you may just blast 20 holes thru the door while the mechanism holds it closed. Point is this....the cost is not significant and henceforth its a common sense type of thing that may help in an active shooter situation. Placing an armed guard in every school in America is not cost effective and any active shooter would probably save his first round for the guard anyway.



That result is just the "price" of your second amendment rights, correct? Who cares if a bunch of people get slaughtered at work or in an elementary school as long as YOU have the right to shoot a gallon jug of water with a 50 cal truck mounted machine gun, correct?

And my second amendment rights are not to be infringed by some lunatic like Lanza. Im not sure exactly what you are hinting at here. Because some retard yells fire in a crowded theatre does not justify elimination of my rights to freedom of speech.

 

[Gilligan]

YOU have the right to shoot a gallon jug of water with a 50 cal truck mounted machine gun, correct?

So ...you've raised the bar on moron yet again. Amazing. Do you have even the tiniest idea how incredibly stupid that statement is?? I do. I have friends who were willing to apply for the license, pay all the fees, drop 40 grand on a transferable machine gun, and then spend $1500-$2000 on ammo at a weekend shoot a couple times a year.

When was the last time anyone who owns/collects a transferable machine gun used it in the commission of a crime?

Speaking of shooting....do you even have any feet left?

 

[frogman123]

How about anyone with a remote background in history books or this new internets thingy?

Mass murder, from Whitman to Lanza to our first school massacre in 1764 and four men entered a school in Greencastle, PA and killed the teacher and 10 kids to the guy in 1927 who killed 38 elementary aged kids and injured 58 more with bombs.

So all schools should be built to withstand an assault with guns and bombs? Got it. A LOT of elementary schools' classrooms do not even have doors. There are just openings to get into each classroom. Because Lanza is dead, people look for the next thing or person to blame-- which in OP's opinion is the school. That is just ridiculous.

 

[Homeland]

So all schools should be built to withstand an assault with guns and bombs? Got it. A LOT of elementary schools' classrooms do not even have doors. There are just openings to get into each classroom. Because Lanza is dead, people look for the next thing or person to blame-- which in OP's opinion is the school. That is just ridiculous.

I think any public school should have an outer perimeter security fence, with a sallie port entrance and each vehicle should be checked and inspected. There should be an off site checking station for commercial vehciles and we should have bomb sniffing dogs and 24/7 surveillance security at that location to prevent it from being comprimised.

 

[Gilligan]

I think any public school should have an outer perimeter security fence, with a sallie port entrance and each vehicle should be checked and inspected. There should be an off site checking station for commercial vehciles and we should have bomb sniffing dogs and 24/7 surveillance security at that location to prevent it from being comprimised.

Good one.

 

[direxpgw]

sandy hook

I think any public school should have an outer perimeter security fence, with a sallie port entrance and each vehicle should be checked and inspected. There should be an off site checking station for commercial vehciles and we should have bomb sniffing dogs and 24/7 surveillance security at that location to prevent it from being comprimised.

Exactly my point. You can protect anything if you wanna throw an insane amount of security at it. Its just not economically possible to do everywhere. I do think some common sense things that are cost conscious should be considered. Maybe some basic heavy duty doors, a few concealed carry teachers/staff, some basic training and/or drills for staff/students. Just something that's better than nothing. Is it gonna protect 100% against a deranged gunman? Of course not. But it may be the difference between 10 and 40 people getting gunned down. And when it can be done without breaking the bank, IMHO its a no brainer.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

It hard to believe there are people that actually believe that Sandy Hook actually happened absent evidence other than what they have been told. As a matter of fact, there is ample evidence that the school wasn't even in operation, ie closed, when this staged event took place. Of course, these might be the very same people that believe that jet fuel that burns, and is consumed quickly, at a maximum temperature of 825º Celsius can melt steel that has a melt temperature of 1510º Celsius. Or, that a building that has no structural damage and a couple smoldering fires can fall straight down right into its own footprint.

I not saying actual events such as described, mass murder, don't happen, but the real ones have always shown the verifiable "bloody" and "dead body" aftermath.

 

[direxpgw]

It hard to believe there are people that actually believe that Sandy Hook actually happened absent evidence other than what they have been told. As a matter of fact, there is ample evidence that the school wasn't even in operation, ie closed, when this staged event took place. Of course, these might be the very same people that believe that jet fuel that burns, and is consumed quickly, at a maximum temperature of 825º Celsius can melt steel that has a melt temperature of 1510º Celsius. Or, that a building that has no structural damage and a couple smoldering fires can fall straight down right into its own footprint.

I not saying actual events such as described, mass murder, don't happen, but the real ones have always shown the verifiable "bloody" and "dead body" aftermath.

Are you spending the day hanging out with Elvis and aliens too??

 

[Homeland]

Exactly my point. You can protect anything if you wanna throw an insane amount of security at it. Its just not economically possible to do everywhere. I do think some common sense things that are cost conscious should be considered. Maybe some basic heavy duty doors, a few concealed carry teachers/staff, some basic training and/or drills for staff/students. Just something that's better than nothing. Is it gonna protect 100% against a deranged gunman? Of course not. But it may be the difference between 10 and 40 people getting gunned down. And when it can be done without breaking the bank, IMHO its a no brainer.

Even this though, isn't the answer. I have no problem with arming teachers. The issue is how many would actually want to be armed?

The diffference is this. Every employe over the age of 21 can walk around their business in Maryland packing either a concealed firearm or open carry. How many do? Just because you pass a law which would allow teachers to carry doesn't mean they will.

 

[Gilligan]

It hard to believe there are people that actually believe that Sandy Hook actually happened absent evidence other than what they have been told. As a matter of fact, there is ample evidence that the school wasn't even in operation, ie closed, when this staged event took place. Of course, these might be the very same people that believe that jet fuel that burns, and is consumed quickly, at a maximum temperature of 825º Celsius can melt steel that has a melt temperature of 1510º Celsius. Or, that a building that has no structural damage and a couple smoldering fires can fall straight down right into its own footprint.
.

I'd heard that people like you do exist...just never saw one actually post before. You funny. BTW..first I'd ever heard that any structural steel in the WTC towers had melted. First time ever.

 

[direxpgw]

sandy hook

Even this though, isn't the answer. I have no problem with arming teachers. The issue is how many would actually want to be armed?

The diffference is this. Every employe over the age of 21 can walk around their business in Maryland packing either a concealed firearm or open carry. How many do? Just because you pass a law which would allow teachers to carry doesn't mean they will.

I would agree with you mostly. Im sure youd find 1 or 2 volunteers in a lot of schools, between the staff, principals, administrators or even the janitors. The key would be in keeping it a secret who is and who isn't, in some basic proper training, and of course finding a few who would be willing and volunteer. Maybe Im wrong and youd find no volunteers. I don't know. But I cant believe there are that many sheep and no one who would rather have the ability to protect themselves and a boatload of innocent lil kids. Again, just some common sense stuff that doesn't even cost a lot. Youre never gonna protect yourself 100%, especially against someone willing to die. All Im saying is do a cost risk/reward assessment. Reading that Sandy Hook report makes me sick to my stomach. How anybody could do something like that is ufb. The root of evil. But its reality and people shouldn't react so emotionally to address solutions like gun control. Its not logical to assume that a person willing to kill 20 little kids and then shoot himself in the head is in any way, shape or form concerned with any other law anybody could pass that's below the severity of 1st degree murder. I don't wanna go off on a tangent, just think some basic low cost, reasonable precautions are warranted in this day and age. I'm not talking about a swat team at every elementary school. But I would sure love to see school systems give administrators the option of a concealed carry given the proper training and desire. Remember, when seconds count, law enforcement is only minutes away.

 

[Homeland]

I would agree with you mostly. Im sure youd find 1 or 2 volunteers in a lot of schools, between the staff, principals, administrators or even the janitors. The key would be in keeping it a secret who is and who isn't, in some basic proper training, and of course finding a few who would be willing and volunteer. Maybe Im wrong and youd find no volunteers. I don't know. But I cant believe there are that many sheep and no one who would rather have the ability to protect themselves and a boatload of innocent lil kids. Again, just some common sense stuff that doesn't even cost a lot. Youre never gonna protect yourself 100%, especially against someone willing to die. All Im saying is do a cost risk/reward assessment. Reading that Sandy Hook report makes me sick to my stomach. How anybody could do something like that is ufb. The root of evil. But its reality and people shouldn't react so emotionally to address solutions like gun control. Its not logical to assume that a person willing to kill 20 little kids and then shoot himself in the head is in any way, shape or form concerned with any other law anybody could pass that's below the severity of 1st degree murder. I don't wanna go off on a tangent, just think some basic low cost, reasonable precautions are warranted in this day and age. I'm not talking about a swat team at every elementary school. But I would sure love to see school systems give administrators the option of a concealed carry given the proper training and desire. Remember, when seconds count, law enforcement is only minutes away.

I don't even know if it's about being a sheep. My best friend is a retired cop who spent most his career on a swat team. He can carry a gun almost where ever he wants. I always ask him if he's packin and half the time he says no. His reasoning is it's sometimes uncomfortable having a gun on your side. He said he carried a gun for 25 years almost all the time and he is okay not having one around.

 

[FollowTheMoney]

I'd heard that people like you do exist...just never saw one actually post before. You funny. BTW..first I'd ever heard that any structural steel in the WTC towers had melted. First time ever.

I never said, "any structural steel in the WTC towers had melted". But let me throw this in: NIST, states in 2005, that from 16 steel columns tested in burning with jet fuel, and interiors only, reached a maximum temp. over 250°C. NIST also states that there's no evidence that any one of the steel columns near the fire reached ever 600°C. This temperature is the critical temperature for the guys claiming steel will loose half its strength.

"I'd heard that people like you do exist..." Yeah, I heard about people like you too, believing in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, God, stepping on a crack will break your mother's back, etc.

I believe in empirical evidence, none of which is available in the Sandy Hook staged event. But much empirical, and scientific, evidence of which goes against what we have been told by the government of how three buildings collapsed into their own foot prints.


Merriam-Webster: gull·ible adjective \ˈgə-lə-bəl\ 1: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true 2:See Gilligan and direxpgw

 

[Larry Gude]

So all schools should be built to withstand an assault with guns and bombs? Got it. .

???

 

[Gilligan]

I never said, "any structural steel in the WTC towers had melted". But let me throw this in: NIST, states in 2005, that from 16 steel columns tested in burning with jet fuel, and interiors only, reached a maximum temp. over 250°C. NIST also states that there's no evidence that any one of the steel columns near the fire reached ever 600°C. This temperature is the critical temperature for the guys claiming steel will loose half its strength.

"I'd heard that people like you do exist..." Yeah, I heard about people like you too, believing in the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, God, stepping on a crack will break your mother's back, etc.

I believe in empirical evidence, none of which is available in the Sandy Hook staged event. But much empirical, and scientific, evidence of which goes against what we have been told by the government of how three buildings collapsed into their own foot prints.


Merriam-Webster: gull·ible adjective \ˈgə-lə-bəl\ 1: easily fooled or cheated; especially : quick to believe something that is not true 2:See Gilligan and direxpgw

No arsehole..see {Gilligan: "rocket propulsion/combustion/propellant engineer and structural/thermal/materials/controls/vehicle dynamics engineer for 30 years".} You? Other than having obvious issues with reality, I mean...

 

[FollowTheMoney]

No arsehole..see {Gilligan: "rocket propulsion/combustion/propellant engineer and structural/thermal/materials/controls/vehicle dynamics engineer for 30 years".} You? Other than having obvious issues with reality, I mean...

Ohhh, so you already know, by your extensive education and experience, that it was impossible for the fire to get hot enough, long enough, to cause a sufficient deformation of WTC's 1, 2 and seven, steel structural elements. Since WTC structural plans specified steels that began at a minimum yield strength FY = 36 ksi and increased from FY = 40 ksi to FY = 85 ksi in 5 ksi (34.5 MPa) increments and the corner elements in the exterior wall often used FY = 100 ksi steels. As well as, the floor truss angles and webs were specified to a mixture of ASTM A 36 and ASTM A 242. The latter is a high-strength, low-alloy (HSLA) steel, though the composition limits in the WTC construction era differ from those of the standard today. Even when the plans called for A 36, the mill often supplied an HSLA steel with substantially higher yield strength. And being "that guy" you also know that the thickness of the plates and grade of structural steel varied over the height of the tower, ranging from 260 to 670 MPa. You would also know of the over 2200 of your fellow engineers that would agree with me. Whew, I'm glad we had this little chat. Happy to welcome you aboard.