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Hessian

Well-Known Member
First lady Michelle Obama, on the other hand, has said: “We try to go to church as much as possible,” which, according to an analysis by Politico, has meant an average of just three Sundays a year during the Obama presidency, and only once on Christmas, in 2011.

Read more at http://www.youngcons.com/obama-not-...mas-presence-distracting/#vMzqpjF0igORgOZ8.99

Blow the dust off the KJV Barry,...and for once set it on top of the Koran. (Wow, mind blow!)
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I'm not sure that Americans care so much anymore if their President goes to church. What is it, 20% of all Americans attend church regularly?
 

ciwmj

New Member
First lady Michelle Obama, on the other hand, has said: “We try to go to church as much as possible,” which, according to an analysis by Politico, has meant an average of just three Sundays a year during the Obama presidency, and only once on Christmas, in 2011.

Read more at http://www.youngcons.com/obama-not-...mas-presence-distracting/#vMzqpjF0igORgOZ8.99

Blow the dust off the KJV Barry,...and for once set it on top of the Koran. (Wow, mind blow!)


I didn't know that mooselimbs went to Church !!!
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
I'm not sure that Americans care so much anymore if their President goes to church. What is it, 20% of all Americans attend church regularly?

Probably right, but most Americans surely expect their president to live as he preaches, and if he calls himself a Christian, real Christians would expect him to be a bit more regular in attending his so-called belief systems meetings. Or they are probably just CINO's, as I suspect.
 

Humbled

Member
Must we go to church. or buy into/support organized religion, to be Christians ?... Or simply to believe in and follow God's will ?
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Must we go to church. or buy into/support organized religion, to be Christians ?... Or simply to believe in and follow God's will ?

I was going to ask that question as well. Do you have to be a member of an organized religion and attend an authorized church in order to be a Christian?
 

Amused_despair

New Member
I was going to ask that question as well. Do you have to be a member of an organized religion and attend an authorized church in order to be a Christian?

John 4:21-25: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+4:1-25&version=NIV;KJV
"21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”"

I have always read this as Jesus saying one does not need to be in a special place to worship but instead to worship God by being as God would wish: devout, obeying God, etc. An extra 5 bonus points for the first person who posts what Bible verse it is where Jesus says that you don't get bonus points for making a big deal about praying, fasting, and giving alms. That it is the intent that matters, not the fact you do it just so others will notice you and think highly of you for doing so.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
John 4:21-25: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+4:1-25&version=NIV;KJV
"21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”"

I have always read this as Jesus saying one does not need to be in a special place to worship but instead to worship God by being as God would wish: devout, obeying God, etc. An extra 5 bonus points for the first person who posts what Bible verse it is where Jesus says that you don't get bonus points for making a big deal about praying, fasting, and giving alms. That it is the intent that matters, not the fact you do it just so others will notice you and think highly of you for doing so.

Absolutely right, but a Christian is known by the fruit they produce (Matt 7:16,19,-20, 12:23, John 15:8, 16, James 3:13-18, especially 17-18, to name a few). Hard to display fruit if one is never around others of like thought. Those will bring it out of you, or show the lack of it in you there forth.

Your example of "you don't get bonus points for making a big deal about praying, fasting, and giving alms.", etc. (Matthew 6 1 -18 specifically, but it carries on throughout the rest of the chapter), is exactly right.

It's awful hard to grow a Christian without being watered and nurtured by others of the same faith. Jesus, through the writings of the NT authors, makes that abundantly clear as well about the importance of being around like believers and meeting, fellow shipping, worshiping, praying, singing, and studying together.
 
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Amused_despair

New Member
All it takes to grow a Christian is the desire to be a Christian. Surrounding one's self with other Christians will neither guarantee success nor failure. The desire must come from with in you. Stephen stood alone against a crowd and proclaimed his love of Jesus even as he was stoned to death.Think of all the so-called Christians who participated in the Inquisition along with the other "Christians". Just because everyone is thinking the same doesn't make the thinking correct.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
All it takes to grow a Christian is the desire to be a Christian. Surrounding one's self with other Christians will neither guarantee success nor failure. The desire must come from with in you. Stephen stood alone against a crowd and proclaimed his love of Jesus even as he was stoned to death.Think of all the so-called Christians who participated in the Inquisition along with the other "Christians". Just because everyone is thinking the same doesn't make the thinking correct.

You sound like a DIY'er. Good for you. But, just curious, how does Stephen fit into your stance on people can do it alone without any others?

Stephen was simply one of the leaders in the early church as it grew exponentially, well known and respected by his peers in the church, so much so that he was chosen as one of the seven deacons to grow and manage the church. One heck of a public responsibility, agreed? He was also falsely accused by the Jews, and gave a very solid, public defense of Christianity before his accusers before he was taken outside and stoned to death (Acts 6:1 - 7:60). He was simply, by God's plan, to be the first Christian to be murdered for his belief, to be followed by unknown probably millions to follow the same fate.

He was certainly out front in leadership of the church.

Surely you could have found a better example of a Christian believer that does it on their own other than Stephen, don't ya think?
 
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Humbled

Member
It's awful hard to grow a Christian without being watered and nurtured by others of the same faith. Jesus, through the writings of the NT authors, makes that abundantly clear as well about the importance of being around like believers and meeting, fellow shipping, worshiping, praying, singing, and studying together.[/QUOTE]

"To grow a Christian" Ok, agreed, but if you are already a Believer, I would think your duty would be to spread the word to non-believers, and the un-knowing. You wont be doing much of that by hanging out in church.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (Eph 4:16)

An easy read for anyone, with plenty of scripture on why Christians need to be together:

http://orwellbible.org/2007/02/13/why-christians-need-each-other/

http://www.basicsofchristianity.com/growth/new-believer-basics-fellowship.htm

https://bible.org/seriespage/what-does-it-take-grow


C. Overview: Seven Habits of Maturing Christians

We will focus on the Seven Basic Habits every Christian needs to develop in order to grow to spiritual maturity. My goal is to…

Equip you with the skills you need to begin these habits

Explain the tools you need to continue these habits.

1. In order to grow we need to eat—The Bible

2. In order to grow we need to breathe—Prayer

3. In order to grow we need good spiritual hygiene—Confession of sin

4. In order to grow we need a caring family—Fellowship

5. In order to grow we need regular exercise—Service

6. In order to grow we need protection—Temptation

7. In order to grow we need to give—Stewardship


Etc., etc. Only about 63 million other hits on the topic.
 

Amused_despair

New Member
You sound like a DIY'er. Good for you. But, just curious, how does Stephen fit into your stance on people can do it alone without any others?

What other Christians stood with Stephen when he exclaimed that he saw Jesus? What other Christians stood with him as the stones flew? He stood alone. He did not waiver. He did not need the safety and comfort of others thinking like him to preserve his faith. All he needed was his faith. You seem to need a crowd.
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Interesting thread....

Do you have to go to church to be a Christian? No.

Acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is what allows you to be counted as a Christian.

Baptism won't save you.

Going to church won't save you.

Spreading the Gospel will not save you.

Being kind to others will not save you.

Giving all you own to charity will not save you.

Tithing will not save you.

Regular attendance, occasional attendance, or holiday attendance will not save you.....

Attending the right church will not save you.....I remember the big debate over religion when John Kennedy was running for President. The fact the Kennedy family were Catholics was a real problem for a lot of people.... now people just vote for entirely different reasons.

As a matter of fact, those who have not received Christ as their personal savior yet go to church, are baptized, give regularly to charity, and tithe usually never become Christians.

It only takes Acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal Savior to achieve Salvation.

Once you accept Him.... you will want to tell people... it's natural.

In order to grow.... you will need a Bible and prayer. Sometimes a brick and mortar church will meet your needs... but now there are more options.... there is church on TV.... Radio... and Internet....

I think of the Bible as letters from home.... and prayer as that phone call from home....

:coffee:
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
Soooooo, as a Catholic, I read threads in this post and see it as the poster child for the complete failure the reformation was and continues to be. Once there was one Pope and now everyone is there own pope. Once there was one Christian church, now everyone and every old Safeway is a church. One thinks you need a physical building to attend regularly, one says you don't ever have to attend.

image-2787134058.jpg
 

Amused_despair

New Member
When the Borgias became Pope's it kind of ruined the idea that just being selected Pope granted some kind of celestial blessing of divine wisdom.

I agree with Hotcoffee, the only path to Heaven is by accepting Jesus as your savior. Jesus considered even thoughts of sin to be as sinful as the deeds themselves. He also said that one had to be more devout a follower of God's Law than the Scribes and Pharisees, that he did not come to overthrow the Laws of Moses but to fulfill them. With all of these differing requirements it is impossible for man to be everything that is required to enter Heaven. But nothing is impossible for God. All you have to do is believe in Him and accept Him.
But that means acting as he instructed: helping others, giving your time and wealth to the less fortunate. Otherwise He will tell you "when I was hungry you did not feed me, when I was homeless you turned me away. I tell you I do not know you."
Do not worry so much about the world of man, worry about your life with God. By your actions be a lamp to brighten a room. Do not seek power over others, instead give up power over yourself to God.
 

onel0126

Bead mumbler
When the Borgias became Pope's it kind of ruined the idea that just being selected Pope granted some kind of celestial blessing of divine wisdom. I agree with Hotcoffee, the only path to Heaven is by accepting Jesus as your savior. Jesus considered even thoughts of sin to be as sinful as the deeds themselves. He also said that one had to be more devout a follower of God's Law than the Scribes and Pharisees, that he did not come to overthrow the Laws of Moses but to fulfill them. With all of these differing requirements it is impossible for man to be everything that is required to enter Heaven. But nothing is impossible for God. All you have to do is believe in Him and accept Him. But that means acting as he instructed: helping others, giving your time and wealth to the less fortunate. Otherwise He will tell you "when I was hungry you did not feed me, when I was homeless you turned me away. I tell you I do not know you." Do not worry so much about the world of man, worry about your life with God. By your actions be a lamp to brighten a room. Do not seek power over others, instead give up power over yourself to God.
Christ didn't promise to Peter that there wouldn't be "bad" popes...He promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against the one, holy, catholic, apostolic Church. Two thousand years later and the promise remains intact.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Interesting thread....

Do you have to go to church to be a Christian? No.

Acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior is what allows you to be counted as a Christian.

Baptism won't save you.

Going to church won't save you.

Spreading the Gospel will not save you.

Being kind to others will not save you.

Giving all you own to charity will not save you.

Tithing will not save you.

Regular attendance, occasional attendance, or holiday attendance will not save you.....

Attending the right church will not save you.....I remember the big debate over religion when John Kennedy was running for President. The fact the Kennedy family were Catholics was a real problem for a lot of people.... now people just vote for entirely different reasons.

As a matter of fact, those who have not received Christ as their personal savior yet go to church, are baptized, give regularly to charity, and tithe usually never become Christians.

It only takes Acceptance of Jesus Christ as your personal Savior to achieve Salvation.

Once you accept Him.... you will want to tell people... it's natural.

In order to grow.... you will need a Bible and prayer. Sometimes a brick and mortar church will meet your needs... but now there are more options.... there is church on TV.... Radio... and Internet....

I think of the Bible as letters from home.... and prayer as that phone call from home....

:coffee:

What you say is true, but is it good, or the best option? Nowhere in scripture does it say one cannot be saved by themselves and keep to themselves. But there is plenty of scripture that points out the negatives of remaining in the closet by oneself instead of becoming involved in the work. The parable of the sower of the seeds point that out many will wither and die because they do not take root and prosper. There is also plenty of scripture that point out the positives of being involved, and that it is best to become part of the body.

Why hide your light under a bushel instead of bringing it out in the open with other believers? The learning curve is greatly enhanced, and growth as well, by being in company of like-minded individuals.

Believers should be shining lights on a hill that others can see and come to for information on why they are like that. You don't have to blow your own horn. One's witness of lifestyle will do that by itself.
 

Amused_despair

New Member
Why hide your light under a bushel instead of bringing it out in the open with other believers? The learning curve is greatly enhanced, and growth as well, by being in company of like-minded individuals.

Believers should be shining lights on a hill that others can see and come to for information on why they are like that. You don't have to blow your own horn. One's witness of lifestyle will do that by itself.

And that there is the key. Who is a better example of being a shining light of Christianity? On who exclaims at every chance that they are a devout Christian as they drive to church every Sunday in their nice car from their nice house while counting every penny they have and wishing for more, or the one who goes to Africa and cares for those who would die without their care and receives nothing but harassment for their efforts?
 
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