Fairfax SWAT team raids Great Falls poker game

Hank

my war
On a quiet weeknight among the stately manors of Great Falls, ten men sat around a table in the basement of a private home last November playing high stakes poker. Suddenly, masked and heavily armed SWAT team officers from the Fairfax County Police Department burst through the door, pointed their assault rifles at the players and ordered them to put their hands on the table. The players complied. Their cash was seized, including a reported $150,000 from the game’s host, and eight of the ten players were charged with the Class 3 misdemeanor of illegal gambling, punishable by a maximum fine of $500. The minimum buy-in for the game was $20,000, with re-buys allowed if you lost your first twenty grand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lls-poker-game-seizes-cash-terrifies-players/
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
And for those who had cash seized from them — one player had more than $20,000, the regular player said — the police agreed to return 60 percent of the money, and keep 40 percent. Though the police use of civil forfeiture is being revised in federal courts, in Virginia state courts the local police agency may keep 100 percent of what they seize

The regular player said the police told him, “The reason we’re here is there are Asian gangs targeting these games,” and it’s certainly true that some private gambling events in Fairfax County have been robbed by nefarious elements. The player said he wanted to respond, “So you robbed us first,” but he did not.

:lol:
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
On a quiet weeknight among the stately manors of Great Falls, ten men sat around a table in the basement of a private home last November playing high stakes poker. Suddenly, masked and heavily armed SWAT team officers from the Fairfax County Police Department burst through the door, pointed their assault rifles at the players and ordered them to put their hands on the table. The players complied. Their cash was seized, including a reported $150,000 from the game’s host, and eight of the ten players were charged with the Class 3 misdemeanor of illegal gambling, punishable by a maximum fine of $500. The minimum buy-in for the game was $20,000, with re-buys allowed if you lost your first twenty grand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...lls-poker-game-seizes-cash-terrifies-players/[/QUOTE

You men the cops took time off from writing tickets in the HOV lanes to put on their SWAT outfits for this?
 

SG_Player1974

New Member
cnn just story about this, many jurisdictions get rich off this....

Yep! They will probably roll the house and anything in/around it into the seizure as well...

This was "targeted" for a lucrative WIN for the police department.

More victims of the Civil forfeiture laws!!
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
They should all know they are associating with known law breakers. I have no sympathy for people that associate with known law breakers.

The law is the law!
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
They should all know they are associating with known law breakers. I have no sympathy for people that associate with known law breakers.

The law is the law!

What kind of law dictates what is legal and illegal in YOUR home with people you invite there? This is beyond ####ed up.. are they going to raid all the offices and homes of people putting money in a football pool for this weekend?
 

itsrequired

New Member
What kind of law dictates what is legal and illegal in YOUR home with people you invite there? This is beyond ####ed up.. are they going to raid all the offices and homes of people putting money in a football pool for this weekend?

Was this a football pool? Hmph. I read that it was a game where over $150,000 was taken and a buy in was for $20,000.00. We must have been reading different stories.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Was this a football pool? Hmph. I read that it was a game where over $150,000 was taken and a buy in was for $20,000.00. We must have been reading different stories.

$20,000 dollars is no money to people who have $20,000 dollars to gamble with.

It's Penny ante to the rich.
 
Says a person who has never driven 55 in a 50 mile zone.

Chris0nlynn was being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure he was, anyway.

Part of the point is this: So many people are hypocritical or intellectually inconsistent (dishonest?) when it comes to these kinds of things, often probably without even recognizing that they are.

When it comes to people we don't relate to or don't want to like or just want to think bad of for whatever reason, we say things like - they broke the law, they got what they deserved; if they didn't want that to happen, they shouldn't have committed a crime; obey the law... whatever. We pretend that those people are bad or deserve to have bad things happen or done to them (e.g. at the hands of the government) because they are unlawful, because they don't respect the law. We take that position without regard to whether the law in question is reasonable or proper. It's the law, so you're a bad person if you violate it.

Never mind the reality that meaningfully every adult who has ever said or thought such things, at least in modern America, has themselves broken the law. It's a throwaway statement or notion - it's redundant, like referring to a man as liking to look at nice looking women (or men, I suppose). It - the notion of someone not obeying the law - applies to everyone. You see, it matters (or should matter) what the law is - e.g., it matters whether the law itself is stupid or improperly violative of individuals' liberty. If someone is bad or deserves being oppressed / harassed / punished by the government merely because they broke some law, without regard to what law we're talking about, then everyone is bad and deserves to be oppressed / harassed / punished. We are, in reality, all criminals (note: that term can be used in different ways, here I'm using it to mean has committed a crime not has been convicted of committing a crime, the latter use is accepted as well). When we think about these things - about criminality, about right and wrong, about whether someone is bad and deserves a bad fate - we should be considering the nature of the crime (or lawlessness more generally) that we're talking about. Murdering someone is not the same as playing a game of poker, stealing is not the same as hiring a prostitute, assaulting someone is not the same as smoking (or possessing) dope, raping someone is not the same as throwing away a piece of junk male with your roommates name on it or checking your personal email from a company computer or even failing to report and pay sales tax on something you ordered off Amazon or... selling single cigarettes from a pack of cigarettes you bought. Those pairs of things compare law violations that are qualitatively very, very different - that tell us very different things about the quality of the character of the people who might commit those violations.

So... anyway... when it comes to ourselves or people we want to like we dismiss the idea that we or they are bad merely because we or they happened to break some silly or improper (in our view) law. We recognize that the nature of the law matters, that paying poker is profoundly different than murdering someone when it comes to what those respective crimes say about the quality of our character and whether we deserve to be treated badly by government or thought bad of in general, perhaps whether we deserve to have our rights violated. But when it comes to others - others we don't intuitively relate to or with whom we have ideological or cultural differences - they're bad people because... hey, the law is the law and they broke it (or perhaps, they might have broke it).
 

John Z

if you will
Very well said!

Chris0nlynn was being sarcastic. I'm pretty sure he was, anyway.

Part of the point is this: So many people are hypocritical or intellectually inconsistent (dishonest?) when it comes to these kinds of things, often probably without even recognizing that they are.

When it comes to people we don't relate to or don't want to like or just want to think bad of for whatever reason, we say things like - they broke the law, they got what they deserved; if they didn't want that to happen, they shouldn't have committed a crime; obey the law... whatever. We pretend that those people are bad or deserve to have bad things happen or done to them (e.g. at the hands of the government) because they are unlawful, because they don't respect the law. We take that position without regard to whether the law in question is reasonable or proper. It's the law, so you're a bad person if you violate it.

Never mind the reality that meaningfully every adult who has ever said or thought such things, at least in modern America, has themselves broken the law. It's a throwaway statement or notion - it's redundant, like referring to a man as liking to look at nice looking women (or men, I suppose). It - the notion of someone not obeying the law - applies to everyone. You see, it matters (or should matter) what the law is - e.g., it matters whether the law itself is stupid or improperly violative of individuals' liberty. If someone is bad or deserves being oppressed / harassed / punished by the government merely because they broke some law, without regard to what law we're talking about, then everyone is bad and deserves to be oppressed / harassed / punished. We are, in reality, all criminals (note: that term can be used in different ways, here I'm using it to mean has committed a crime not has been convicted of committing a crime, the latter use is accepted as well). When we think about these things - about criminality, about right and wrong, about whether someone is bad and deserves a bad fate - we should be considering the nature of the crime (or lawlessness more generally) that we're talking about. Murdering someone is not the same as playing a game of poker, stealing is not the same as hiring a prostitute, assaulting someone is not the same as smoking (or possessing) dope, raping someone is not the same as throwing away a piece of junk male with your roommates name on it or checking your personal email from a company computer or even failing to report and pay sales tax on something you ordered off Amazon or... selling single cigarettes from a pack of cigarettes you bought. Those pairs of things compare law violations that are qualitatively very, very different - that tell us very different things about the quality of the character of the people who might commit those violations.

So... anyway... when it comes to ourselves or people we want to like we dismiss the idea that we or they are bad merely because we or they happened to break some silly or improper (in our view) law. We recognize that the nature of the law matters, that paying poker is profoundly different than murdering someone when it comes to what those respective crimes say about the quality of our character and whether we deserve to be treated badly by government or thought bad of in general, perhaps whether we deserve to have our rights violated. But when it comes to others - others we don't intuitively relate to or with whom we have ideological or cultural differences - they're bad people because... hey, the law is the law and they broke it (or perhaps, they might have broke it).
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
What kind of law dictates what is legal and illegal in YOUR home with people you invite there? This is beyond ####ed up.. are they going to raid all the offices and homes of people putting money in a football pool for this weekend?

On the serious side, I can see the argument that a game with those stakes invites crime and, therefore, there is a community safety concern. However, the larger concern is the protection of licensed gambling in Maryland and West Va.

This is what happens when you don't invite someone in the establishment to play. :shrug:
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
....it matters (or should matter) what the law is - e.g., it matters whether the law itself is stupid or improperly violative of individuals' liberty. If someone is bad or deserves being oppressed / harassed / punished by the government merely because they broke some law, without regard to what law we're talking about, then everyone is bad and deserves to be oppressed / harassed / punished. We are, in reality, all criminals (note: that term can be used in different ways, here I'm using it to mean has committed a crime not has been convicted of committing a crime, the latter use is accepted as well). When we think about these things - about criminality, about right and wrong, about whether someone is bad and deserves a bad fate - we should be considering the nature of the crime (or lawlessness more generally) that we're talking about. Murdering someone is not the same as playing a game of poker, stealing is not the same as hiring a prostitute, assaulting someone is not the same as smoking (or possessing) dope, raping someone is not the same as throwing away a piece of junk male with your roommates name on it or checking your personal email from a company computer or even failing to report and pay sales tax on something you ordered off Amazon or... selling single cigarettes from a pack of cigarettes you bought. Those pairs of things compare law violations that are qualitatively very, very different - that tell us very different things about the quality of the character of the people who might commit those violations. .

Frederik Bastiat; When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law.
 

itsrequired

New Member
$20,000 dollars is no money to people who have $20,000 dollars to gamble with.

It's Penny ante to the rich.

I understand that. It's still against the law. If it's penny ante what are they bitching about? If they don't like the law, then write their congressman.

Would you have as much empthy for a guy driving a Ferrari at 100 mph getting a $300.0 ticket?
 
What kind of law dictates what is legal and illegal in YOUR home with people you invite there? This is beyond ####ed up.. are they going to raid all the offices and homes of people putting money in a football pool for this weekend?

:yay:

And, importantly, it's not just that you invited them there - it's also that they were consenting adults.

We like to have control over others to make up for our sense of lack of control over ourselves and our own fate. And we like to affirm our own (insubstantial) notions of right and wrong, our arbitrary notions of morality, by imposing them on others and having them validated by society at large by their being enacted into law. And, perhaps most importantly, we like to hide from our own insecurities (or we overcompensate for them) by convincing ourselves that others are bad or wrong (e.g. because they gamble) so that must make us good or right (e.g. because we don't gamble). Instead of being substantively good, instead of living by substantive notions of right and wrong, we like to fake it - we like to do it the easy way instead of working at actually being a good person. And one trick used to fake it is to arbitrarily define innocuous (i.e. innocuous by their nature rather than necessarily innocuous by their possible consequences) things as bad so that it's easy to (pretend) to be good. We just don't do those things we've defined as bad, whereas other people do, and that means we're good people whether we actually are or not (e.g. whether we treat others fairly). Or, if we do stumble and do those things we've arbitrarily defined as bad, at least we have the sense to feel bad about it. To maintain the idelusion, it's helpful to get the government to define those things as bad as well and punish the bad people that do them.
 
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Frederik Bastiat; When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law.

Indeed.

And when the others - those we don't readily relate to - might dare to resist oppressive or improper law... well, then, they get what they deserve. They should respect the law and the enforcement there of.

But when it comes to us - ourselves and those we do readily relate to - well, it's proper (perhaps even noble) for us to resist government tyranny, or at least suggest that we would. When they pry it from my cold dead hands...
 
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