but you deny Christanity had a place ....

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Obama: 'Islam Has Been Woven Into the Fabric of Our Country Since Its Founding'



(CNSNews.com) - We hear a lot about the United States' Judeo-Christian heritage, but according to President Obama, "Islam has been woven into the fabric of our country since its founding."

That's what the president told a White House conference on "countering violent extremism" on Wednesday.

Obama has said similar things in the past:

"I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story,” Obama said in a June 2009 speech in Cairo, Egypt. "Islam has always been part of America," he said in a 2010 statement marking the start of Ramadan. And in a 2014 statement marking Eid, Obama said the holiday "also reminds us of the many achievements and contributions of Muslim Americans to building the very fabric of our nation and strengthening the core of our democracy."

In his speech on Wednesday, Obama was making the point that Western nations must show that they "welcome people of all faiths," at a time when "extremists" are saying that Western nations are "hostile to Muslims."
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
Obama: 'Islam Has Been Woven Into the Fabric of Our Country Since Its Founding'



(CNSNews.com) - We hear a lot about the United States' Judeo-Christian heritage, but according to President Obama, "Islam has been woven into the fabric of our country since its founding."

That's what the president told a White House conference on "countering violent extremism" on Wednesday.

Obama has said similar things in the past:

"I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story,” Obama said in a June 2009 speech in Cairo, Egypt. "Islam has always been part of America," he said in a 2010 statement marking the start of Ramadan. And in a 2014 statement marking Eid, Obama said the holiday "also reminds us of the many achievements and contributions of Muslim Americans to building the very fabric of our nation and strengthening the core of our democracy."

In his speech on Wednesday, Obama was making the point that Western nations must show that they "welcome people of all faiths," at a time when "extremists" are saying that Western nations are "hostile to Muslims."

Muslims supplied the south with slaves, maybe that is what he means
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Did Muslims play a role in the founding of the country? Here’s what David Barton found…

DAVID: Oh, I just expected it. I laughed. It was really pretty ridiculous. I have since then actually tried — because in all the reading I’ve done, you know, thousands of books, there’s nothing there. You and I know some of the stuff that’s out there, I mean, we know that Muslims were the folks who captured the slaves sent to America largely out of Africa. The Dutch would hall anything they were given. They were traders. The Muslims who did the slave hunting and the slave trading, et cetera. The first Muslims came to America as a result of the Muslims capturing them and sending them to the Dutch traders. We know beyond that we had a 32-year war with Muslims. At first American edition of the Koran, the editors said, you guys have to read this. This is crazy stuff. You’ll understand why we’ve had 32 years of war with these nuts. I mean, those exactly are contributions that would jump to mind. That’s about all you can point to back then. So I spent a little bit of time to look up.

If you go to a website called Islam101.com and look at the contribution of Islams to America. I’m telling you, bro, we’re really sparse here. 1732. Here’s a contribution of a Muslim to America. 1732, a Muslim is set free by James Oglethorpe, who is the founder of Georgia. He’s set free and given passage to England. That’s what they consider a contribution to America.

1790. It says, well, Muslims are known to be living in Florida. Oh, yeah, that’s a Spanish possession of Florida. And Moorish Muslims occupied Spain, so no surprise there. Then, 1807, it says a Muslim is set free. He buys shares in a bank. Now, we have someone who actually bought stock in America.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
I can't figure out why the President feels any obligation whatsoever to defend Islam.

Here is my take;

The left has built their entire social narrative on the violence and hostility of the white European male. He is greedy, Christian and racist and he built the nation on the backs of others. That is their social narrative and hence their narrative of the nation, what was and is wrong with it and why and, hence, the backbone of left of center polices designed to correct these wrongs. Nowhere in it is there any room for them, us, me, being the lesser evil who continually sought justice over time and, moreover, ingrained in the fabric of the nation (to use the phrase of the day), at its founding, the path to freedom and liberty for all. And, nowhere is there room to say "Ok, the white European Christian male is no longer a savage to minorities and a mortal threat to the world. He is, in fact, the backbone of freedom and liberty accomplished here at home and its one and only true defender worldwide. His ways and history are the hope of the world."

Now, if you compare that, the argument that WECM's are simply bad news and everyone else is simply trying to survive our onslaught, it is VERY inconvenient to have this competing narrative of OTHER men, not white, not European, and absolutely NOT Christian who enslave others, demand supremacy of their faith, subordinate women and do violence to any and all who do not conform. In short, fundamentalist Islam, this way of life that used to be very little known and well out of OUR mainstream consciousness, now that it has come to light and in such way as to be absolutely no longer ignorable, it is a, THE mortal threat to the narrative that the WECM's are the bogey man of the world.

Imagine gay rednecks who hate blacks, Jews, love guns and Jesus.
Imagine black folks who refuse to hire anyone but fellow blacks and think Mexicans should all be kicked out, hate gays, think women belong at home.
Imagine Hispanics who keep to their own, worship Jesus and capitalism and think anyone else who keeps to their own are simply rational.

Islam isn't just a threat to individual livery and freedom, it is an existential threat to the progressive left that exists solely if WECM's are THE bad guys.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
:yay:


Well Said Larry

Thank you. I thought so. :buddies:

Can you imagine a discussion about the Klan that excludes their fundamental Christianity? Our a conversation about Hitler that excludes national socialism? A womans rights conversation where abortion is excluded?

All these things are about power and, with ISIS, Islam is THE source, THE argument of their power, what they are, who they are. We are a silly people with a silly leader. We deserve one another. Sadly.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Thank you. I thought so. :buddies:

Can you imagine a discussion about the Klan that excludes their fundamental Christianity? Our a conversation about Hitler that excludes national socialism? A womans rights conversation where abortion is excluded?

But the difference is, Christians are quite vocal about rejecting what the Klan is about and emphatically deny that there is anything Christian about them. Muslims, by and large, are silent about ISIS and al Qaeda. When Westboro runs around with their senseless tripe, Christians are the first to say “this is not what Christianity is about and we emphatically reject their sick practices”.

If Muslims were to be A LOT MORE VOCAL about condemning these groups, distancing their faith from them, and actually taking action against them I would feel much more easy about the problem. They seem to refuse to recognize this is a problem within their faith; and they need to do something about that.
 

Hijinx

Well-Known Member
But the difference is, Christians are quite vocal about rejecting what the Klan is about and emphatically deny that there is anything Christian about them. Muslims, by and large, are silent about ISIS and al Qaeda. When Westboro runs around with their senseless tripe, Christians are the first to say “this is not what Christianity is about and we emphatically reject their sick practices”.

If Muslims were to be A LOT MORE VOCAL about condemning these groups, distancing their faith from them, and actually taking action against them I would feel much more easy about the problem. They seem to refuse to recognize this is a problem within their faith; and they need to do something about that.

Like.
 
But the difference is, Christians are quite vocal about rejecting what the Klan is about and emphatically deny that there is anything Christian about them. Muslims, by and large, are silent about ISIS and al Qaeda. When Westboro runs around with their senseless tripe, Christians are the first to say “this is not what Christianity is about and we emphatically reject their sick practices”.

If Muslims were to be A LOT MORE VOCAL about condemning these groups, distancing their faith from them, and actually taking action against them I would feel much more easy about the problem. They seem to refuse to recognize this is a problem within their faith; and they need to do something about that.

Are Christians routinely killed by the KKK when they speak out against them? ISIS is killing muslims who speak out against them, so I think any reluctance by the moderate mainstream muslims is understandable. I do not think the silence is as deafening as the Fox & Friends bunch would have their followers believe.
 

DipStick

Keep Calm and Don't Care!
I can't figure out why the President feels any obligation whatsoever to defend Islam.

Because, like Bush who also defended Islam, Obama needs Islamic support in the war against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.
 
Because, like Bush who also defended Islam, Obama needs Islamic support in the war against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

"These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that. The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule. The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." ~President George W. Bush, 17 Sep 2001
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Because, like Bush who also defended Islam, Obama needs Islamic support in the war against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

So that explains why Barry has managed to so badly alienate former "sorta allies" like the Saudis and Egypt, and helped destroy Libya, and... oh..wait. Which Muslims does Barry supposedly want support from? Iran, maybe? There is Jordan, I guess...poor as they are.
 
"These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that. The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule. The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war." ~President George W. Bush, 17 Sep 2001

I considered posting this GW Bush quote and attributing it to Obama. I have no doubt that the usual Obama-obsessed haters would have pounced on it.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
But the difference is, Christians are quite vocal about rejecting what the Klan is about and emphatically deny that there is anything Christian about them. Muslims, by and large, are silent about ISIS and al Qaeda. When Westboro runs around with their senseless tripe, Christians are the first to say “this is not what Christianity is about and we emphatically reject their sick practices”.

If Muslims were to be A LOT MORE VOCAL about condemning these groups, distancing their faith from them, and actually taking action against them I would feel much more easy about the problem. They seem to refuse to recognize this is a problem within their faith; and they need to do something about that.

I agree BUT we have to put this in context.

The Reformation took well over 100 years. In 1776 THE nation of individual rights and liberty was established...with legal slavery. It took almost 100 years to legally end it. Women, of that same nation of freedom, didn't gain the right to vote until 1920, not even 100 years ago. The iconic picture of the KKK and their HUGE march in Washington DC took place in 1928, barely more than a decade before we chose to go fight over seas against what we deemed to be oppressive governance. Add to that that we have a New Testament.

There has been no reformation in Islam let alone any change to the Koran for it's entire existence and, if any, it certainly does not even begin to approach the change set in motion in the West in 1517. Slavery? Women's rights? Religious rights? Voting? This is yet another facet of my 'fundamentalism' jihad; that word is EVERYTHING when we consider getting involved with Islam let alone invasion and forever war.

Where did OUR change come from? From without the faith? Or, within? Obviously, any change that really matters, faith, behavior, slavery, women's rights, attitudes about them, the reality, takes time and MUST be internal change OVER time. LOT'S and LOTS of it. This is part of what is so maddening about the view that we can, somehow, get THEM to change and, not only that, do it through half assed (1/4, 1/8th??? 1/16th) application of force that produces NOTHING, but more resistance.

We still refuse to even see Islam for what it is let alone start to come around to HOW to protect ourselves and win as defined by the survival and prosperity of Western, Christianity rooted, values and ways and traditions and life.

I say all that to address your point; expecting them to be vocal about Islam, their faith, is FAR more pointless than Al Sharpton showing up at a cross burning in, say 1901, and pleading his 'fellow' Christians to tone it down a bit. That, frankly, would have a MUCH higher chance of success than expecting Muslims today to stand up to, presuming they are even inclined to do so, against 'radicals' and 'extremists' and 'terrorists' acting in their name, 'perverting' their faith. I mean, just staying with the Sharpton theme, he'd have had no sympathy or support from NON members let alone actually have someone take off their hood and say "Wait, he's got a point, brothers! He IS our brother in Christ!"

Taking religion out of it and going with simply human nature, gangs today, the mafia in its heyday, survived and thrived because they were, are, accepted in their communities. Any Muslim need not have to be a jihadist to appreciate ISIS and al queda's argument that the West has long corrupted their world, is rotting it and has long acted in OUR own self interest against them in violation of our OWN principles.

So, to me, it is not reasonable to expect anything to come of sincerely expecting THEM to police their faith as we would have them do, as we would police our own TODAY. I mean, we refuse to take step one in even acknowledging that this is simply fundamentalism we face. It is little wonder when we have leaders like the last two. They, clearly, don't get it. They set tone, policy, law, lead us and our views, in general, on Islam arguing, absurdly, that these folks are merely a few crazies. That is simply not true. To know better and to say so is, in a word, lying. If you don't like to think of one, or both of them, as liars, then, what is their argument? That it takes time? They're not even at that step.

:shrug:
 
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PsyOps

Pixelated
Are Christians routinely killed by the KKK when they speak out against them? ISIS is killing muslims who speak out against them, so I think any reluctance by the moderate mainstream muslims is understandable. I do not think the silence is as deafening as the Fox & Friends bunch would have their followers believe.

I’m willing to bet plenty of black Christians were killed by the KKK :ohwell:

What sort of routine killings are going on by the KKK today?

I’m providing a difference in how the two faiths respond differently to groups that hijack their faiths for violent reasons. Your point is a different discussion that has nothing to do with my point. But you’re suggesting fear ought to trump reasonable responses to a problem within their religion. The KKK have been rendered virtual impotent, primarily by Christians rejected their sick philosophy. What would be reasonable is for the vast majority of Muslim that do reject these terrorists is to take up arms with us to combat this. We would have a far better means to defeat it if Muslims in huge numbers fought with us. It would have a psychological effect.

And I have no idea why you people pull this ‘Foxnews’ crap out when you have no clue where I get my info. I am seeing nowhere, in any media any sort of widespread, or even moderate, outrage within the Muslim community with this Islamic terrorism. In fact, if you want to talk Fox News, it’s O’Reilly that has challenged Imams to come on his show to express their outrage and ideas on how to combat it. Are you seeing anywhere else?
 
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