Here's a fantastic idea: let's abolish cash!

LibertyBeacon

Unto dust we shall return
It probably wouldn't be so hard to accomplish this.

The majority of fat and lazy Americans (read most of you) are so utterly fascinated by that shiny piece of iCrap you carry in your pockets as you aimlessly walk in malls, gauchery stores, and countless other places, they could pull this off and you'd be thanking them for doing you such a nice favor. You don't even need to be sold on the concept, you've already taken the bait like an Ethiopian fish.

Suckers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

When economic conditions worsen, they react by reducing interest rates in order to stimulate the economy. But, as has happened across the world in recent years, there comes a point where those central banks run out of room to cut — they can bring interest rates to zero, but reducing them further below that is fraught with problems, the biggest of which is cash in the economy.
In a new piece, Citi's Willem Buiter looks at this problem, which is known as the effective lower bound (ELB) on nominal interest rates.
Fundamentally, the ELB problem comes down to cash. According to Buiter, the ELB only exists at all due to the existence of cash, which is a bearer instrument that pays zero nominal rates. Why have your money on deposit at a negative rate that reduces your wealth when you can have it in cash and suffer no reduction?
 

LibertyBeacon

Unto dust we shall return
I am surprised the Statists haven't gone and done this already

They have in Cyprus (partial cash confiscation anyway), where the central bank there is (was, at the time anyway) run by a former U.S. central bank official. So yea, I expect some form of this here. ZIRP cannot last forever. You know there are real problems when the rates cannot be raised even 25 goddamn basis points.

Of course the other obvious problem here is that if the government forces you into electronic transactions for purchases there is no longer purchasing anonymity. I think *that* is the real driver here to be honest.
 

tommyjo

New Member
It probably wouldn't be so hard to accomplish this.

The majority of fat and lazy Americans (read most of you) are so utterly fascinated by that shiny piece of iCrap you carry in your pockets as you aimlessly walk in malls, gauchery stores, and countless other places, they could pull this off and you'd be thanking them for doing you such a nice favor. You don't even need to be sold on the concept, you've already taken the bait like an Ethiopian fish.

Suckers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...onomist-says-it-might-be-time-to-abolish-cash

First off, the author's comments about abolishing currency have nothing to do with your comments above.

Second, the paper in question is not "new" as the Bloomberg article states. It was and NBER paper written in June of 2009. The purpose of the paper was to offer means for Central Banks to extricate themselves from the liquidity trap that occurs when they set interest rates at the zero bound. Here is the paper: http://www.willembuiter.com/zlb.pdf

In this paper, Mr. Buiter discusses, the positive aspects of cash as a means of creating demand: http://willembuiter.com/helifinal.pdf

Both are much, much deeper than the silly conclusions you drew from the Bloomberg article.
 

LibertyBeacon

Unto dust we shall return
First off, the author's comments about abolishing currency have nothing to do with your comments above.

Second, the paper in question is not "new" as the Bloomberg article states. It was and NBER paper written in June of 2009. The purpose of the paper was to offer means for Central Banks to extricate themselves from the liquidity trap that occurs when they set interest rates at the zero bound. Here is the paper: http://www.willembuiter.com/zlb.pdf

In this paper, Mr. Buiter discusses, the positive aspects of cash as a means of creating demand: http://willembuiter.com/helifinal.pdf

Both are much, much deeper than the silly conclusions you drew from the Bloomberg article.

Hi Dr. Krugman:

I think your ideas are fascinating, and I'd love to subscribe to your newsletter.

Where do I send my cash?
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Of course the other obvious problem here is that if the government forces you into electronic transactions for purchases there is no longer purchasing anonymity. I think *that* is the real driver here to be honest.



since the 'War on Drugs' you cannot make large cash purchases without being ratted out to the IRS, so do you really think anonymity is really the issue ...


IMHO 90% of Americans aren't buying there next 90 inch TV with cash
... unless it is between Feb and :shrug: May ... when their Tax Refunds came in

-devils advocate here ...
cashless - a lot of crime diminishes
... the corner drug dealing business just got harder ...

Payoffs to Politicians and Prostitutes - but I repeat myself

[although Obama proved you could still get anonymous cash - just turn off the security functions and accept prepaid visa cards from anywhere]
but I guess once you cannot by a $ 30 Visa Pre-paid card for cash, everything is traceable
... the ubiquitous burner cell phone
 

LibertyBeacon

Unto dust we shall return
since the 'War on Drugs' you cannot make large cash purchases without being ratted out to the IRS, so do you really think anonymity is really the issue ...


IMHO 90% of Americans aren't buying there next 90 inch TV with cash
... unless it is between Feb and :shrug: May ... when their Tax Refunds came in

-devils advocate here ...
cashless - a lot of crime diminishes
... the corner drug dealing business just got harder ...

Payoffs to Politicians and Prostitutes - but I repeat myself

[although Obama proved you could still get anonymous cash - just turn off the security functions and accept prepaid visa cards from anywhere]
but I guess once you cannot by a $ 30 Visa Pre-paid card for cash, everything is traceable
... the ubiquitous burner cell phone

You raise good issues.

You are right, I stand in line in so many places and see people pay with their phones (geo-tagged transactions) with the various that I often draw the conclusion that privacy is dead, and this is what most people want. I am concerned about those of us who are smart enough to know how to navigate rather anonymously with cash (or just plain bartering) not being able to do that any longer.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I am concerned about those of us who are smart enough to know how to navigate rather anonymously with cash (or just plain bartering) not being able to do that any longer.




yeah I have not bartered for something since I bought my last used car 15 yrs ago
 

Salvador

One Nation Under God
since the 'War on Drugs' you cannot make large cash purchases without being ratted out to the IRS, so do you really think anonymity is really the issue ...


IMHO 90% of Americans aren't buying there next 90 inch TV with cash
... unless it is between Feb and :shrug: May ... when their Tax Refunds came in

-devils advocate here ...
cashless - a lot of crime diminishes
... the corner drug dealing business just got harder ...

Payoffs to Politicians and Prostitutes - but I repeat myself

[although Obama proved you could still get anonymous cash - just turn off the security functions and accept prepaid visa cards from anywhere]
but I guess once you cannot by a $ 30 Visa Pre-paid card for cash, everything is traceable
... the ubiquitous burner cell phone

Reading this gave me a headache.


:popcorn:
 

mamatutu

mama to two
suck it troll

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

No, thank you. The thought is replusive. Just giving back to the community. You get what you give, or give what you get. Absolutely :killingme: A troll without integrity is like a politician that doesn't care what his constituents think. I made that up. In other words, not giving a sh!t about what makes sense, or not, or worried about the state of human kind, much less America. Good on ya!
 
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Salvador

One Nation Under God
No, thank you. The thought is replusive. Just giving back to the community. You get what you give, or give what you get. Absolutely :killingme: A troll without integrity is like a politician that doesn't care what his constituents think. I made that up. In other words, not giving a sh!t about what makes sense, or not, or worried about the state of human kind, much less America. Good on ya!

Cocaine is a helluva drug.


:popcorn:
 

digitallest

New Member
I thought about this a few years back, and am going to have a lot to say in this post, but i hope you will all stick with me.

Since the first time it occurred to me i have wondered how long it would take the government to make overtures toward phasing in a cashless society. The benefits to our government would be dramatic. Say all of our money is virtual, your entire economic worth tied to your identity. If you had a warrant for your arrest, you would be unable to buy food, or anything else. Taxation could then be done in the dark. I mean, streamlined for efficiency. Hahaha. the irs would not need us to fill out forms, every penny we would ever make already known. No more anonymity period. Not even the illusion of anonymity we currently enjoy.

As was mentioned, we already carry an identity broadcaster, with gps tracking right in our pockets. We drive new cars with embedded gps, anonymity is already gone, except for those willing to go full ham after it, and even then, when you go to purchase that burner phone, you will be caught on a security camera, probably more than one.

Increasingly people seem to view a person wanting privacy as probable cause for suspicion. It is those subtle skews in popular perspective which give me pause. So far, between the wars on concepts and substances, and the media being used as a pry bar to divide the people, combined with some of the legislations of the past 20 years or so, patriot act, additions to the ndaa in 2012, passed in such sneaky circumstances, at night, on New Years, in media silence. The 2013 additions to the NDRPP make it look even more like a primer, and points a very pointy finger at why the gov does not have love for the family farmer. Corporate farms are good, people growing their own food...not so much. Family farmers are feeling a pressure, hot epa breath on their necks. They are starting to feel like they are being treated like a threat.

Suddenly, it makes sense to say, "let's pass laws without reading them for a change" because "fog of war" is a thing. Now that we have the "pass, then read" precedent, who is to say what the next unstoppable monstrosity will be to get the same treatment. It is like a "grab bag" never know what you are gonna get 'til it is the law of the land, except for the ruling elite who called "not it!" and held their index fingers on the tips of their noses while they voted, so they do not have to be subject to their own decrees. We have no problem with any of this. really?

Right now some public servants are bitching about not being able to decrypt peoples cellphones without having to go through all kinds of bs like getting a court order and proving they have a legal right to that data. I mean how can they be reasonably expected to wholesale spy on everyone under such conditions?! *stomps feet

terrorism! Drugs! We are at war here, civil rights are for peacetime.

I wonder how many drugs have been killed in that war against them? Bet it is mostly people dying, huh? But people who do not matter, because they made the choice to do drugs. Probably because they have emotional problems, and failing to cope they errantly sought to feel better without a prescription for an approved substance. Of course, some of them do have a prescription, and are using an approved substance in the wrong way. But, yeah, they don't matter, and it does not matter that the war on drugs is really a war on people who use drugs. They are wrecking their lives any way, and will probably steal and stuff, too.

The war on terror is funny too. I hope we kill both terror, and terrorism, as concepts, they are better off dead.

Here is our fly in the ointment. Say you piss off the wrong person. They can turn the entire US on you. They can write love letters to bin ladin from your email account. They can write your terrorist manifesto on you @ you dot com. Who is gonna say it is not you threatening to blow up all the infidels? You? You're a terrorist! No one is gonna believe you. You got nothin, because terrorists friends and families always act astounded and say "oh no, You would never be a terrorist!" How would any of us be able to defend against such a thing? when the bag of flour in your pantry can easily be described as, "several POUNDS of a suspicious white powder" by an adorable newscaster, looking frightened, concerned, and soooo sincere, all of us could be the you in this scenario, and we are wise to hold skepticism as a tool for survival.

it would be great to believe that it could never happen, but it can. I have had my email account accessed without permission by a person with malicious intentions. Luckily it was not to turn me into a virtual traitor, it was just to discredit me, and probably mostly just to mess with me. Kind of a prank, but not the kind friends pull. the kind creepy people with too much free time, and an axe to grind pull.

They turned me into a virtual hooker, clipping bits I wrote about myself in an old myspace profile, and using the magic of a keylogger, were able to post hooker profiles on a large number of sites from my very own email, with photos pulled from my own online photo albums. (No nakeds, or even dirty pics, as there are none, but they used my first and last name on every damned one of nearly a dozen sites)

I have managed to get most of them removed, but one site refuses to pull down the profile without a court order. They said it drives traffic, and I was thinking, that sounds like too much effort, plus, i was kinda flattered, so I let it go. lol. Not often I get to drive traffic for an online pimp. No one can contact me from the profile, so, there is that, but this lie is out there forever. It is funny now but at the time, it was horrifying. I still do not know who did that to me, but I hope they fall down several flights of concrete stairs.

Long and windy, but there are some reasonable points, things we might want to be aware of, don't you think? I am nobody special, stuff like this and much worse, can be done to anyone. Oh, that dorkwad also sent some crazy emails to significant clients, in what I took to be an attack on my agency. For a few months, I walked around feeling sick to my stomach, jumping at shadows. I felt so violated, and had no idea if the person had broken into my house to install a key logger, or what. The feeling of vulnerability has lost its edge, but remains real to me, in light of this.

well, congratulations to anyone who made it to the end of my many thoughts on privacy in the digital age. Available as an audio book on itunes. Not really, i am just very accustomed to writing, and can bust out a feature length article almost accidentally. I can't truthfully call it a curse, it has been a gift. To me. Maybe not everyone else lol.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Suddenly, it makes sense to say, "let's pass laws without reading them for a change" because "fog of war" is a thing. Now that we have the "pass, then read" precedent, who is to say what the next unstoppable monstrosity will be to get the same treatment. It is like a "grab bag" never know what you are gonna get 'til it is the law of the land, except for the ruling elite who called "not it!" and held their index fingers on the tips of their noses while they voted, so they do not have to be subject to their own decrees. We have no problem with any of this. really?



In a manner of speaking, actually that has been going on for awhile now, democrats write innocuous seeming bills ... weak language, ambiguous in nature ...

then their campaign donators sue the Gov. in court ... and we end up with LAWS that never would have been passed in a straight forward manner
 
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